2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

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The Frugal Gourmet
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:07 am

Nope.

Everyone agrees that Lites made an excellent decision that has propelled his team to greatness. I have not even seen any criticism of him.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby BigAl » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:03 am

Thoraly Birch.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:52 am

Val is in some elite company:


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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:54 am

But, he's so good at defense!!!
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:13 am

If you throw in all of the goalies, you can get a big list of names to show this isn't so unusual.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:17 am

Oh my, that's so absurd. The maddening part is you know if we traded him he'd score in his first game for another team. I'm not saying he'd turn into an actual goal scorer of note, but that he'd at least get that first one right away.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby BigAl » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:01 pm

https://old.reddit.com/r/hockey/comment ... one_hands/

The Gilles “Stone Hands” Marotte Award is annually awarded to the individual in the NHL who takes the most shots on goal without scoring a single goal.

This is an individual who not only is remarkably bad at scoring, but fails to let their inability to score stop them from trying over and over and over and over again.

Last year’s winner was Nick Jensen with 107 shots and no goals. Jensen is not eligible this year for the award as he has managed to score 2 goals already this season. Only zero goal scorers are eligible.

Up until today, Duncan Keith was leading the league in this category and was on pace to possibly obliterate last year’s record. His pace of 143 shots without a goal would’ve stood as 3rd all time, behind only Mike McHahon, Jr’s 68-69 season (split between Chicago and the North Stars) with 144 shots, and award namesake Marotte’s futile 67-68 season (played for Chicago) with 154 shots. What is it with Chicago Dmen and this award?

But alas Keith did score Sunday and has made himself ineligible for the Marotte award this year.

So here are the top twelve candidates still in the running:

Jacob Larsson (D) - ANA - 35 shots
Julius Honka (D) - DAL - 35 shots
Juho Lammikko (F) - FLA - 35 shots
Thomas Hickey (D) - NYI - 37 shots
Nikita Zaitsev (D) - TOR - 37 shots
Greg Pateryn (D) - MIN - 40 shots
Alexander Petrovic (D) - FLA/EDM - 42 shots
Dion Phaneuf (D) - LAK - 42 shots
Valeri Nichushkin (F) - DAL - 45 shots
Tobias Rieder (F) - EDM - 52 shots
Kevin Connauton (D) - ARI - 52 shots
Henri Jokiharju (D) - CHI - 59 shots

So there you are. Our current top twelve. Any of those guys could score a goal and put themselves out of the running for the Marotte Award. But if Henri Jokiharju keeps up his current pace for the second half of the season, he could well surpass 100 shots on goal with no goals. Passing 100 shots in a season with no goals has only been accomplished 16 times in NHL history (going back to 59-60 when shots began to be recorded), including twice last season (Jensen with 107, and Ben Hutton with 103). Rieder and Connauton also have very real shots at hitting the 100 mark this season.

Stay tuned for an update at the end of the season where a winner will be crowned!

As always, if you want to honor Gilles Marotte’s memory, feel free to make a donation to a Pancreatic Cancer Charity such as the Lustgarten Foundation:

https://www.lustgarten.org

Thoraly Birch.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:53 pm

Now these are the kind of fancy stats I’m in for.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:28 am

That's amazing. What's really amazing is Honka being up there yet he's only played in 26 games. Both he and Val are on pace for (if they played a whole season) 110 shots without a goal.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:07 am

What's even more amazing is that 25% of that list is either current or former Stars.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:19 am

wonko80 wrote:That's amazing. What's really amazing is Honka being up there yet he's only played in 26 games. Both he and Val are on pace for (if they played a whole season) 110 shots without a goal.

I mean... Honka has now played the equivalent of a full NHL season, and as I've said before, he's put up point totals that even Craig Ludwig would call a down year. And this is a kid who is supposed to be an offensive specialist.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby BigAl » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:24 am

Val and Honka excel at “shots on goalie.”
Pateryn is more of a “shots towards goal” guy.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:37 am

So Shapiro did an interview (dinner) with Dickinson. This quote from Dickinson directly is interesting:

“At the time they were looking for depth scoring. So in my head, I was like, ‘I can be that depth scoring. I need to find it.’ And putting that pressure on myself to score. But I’ve never been a point producer. I’ve never been your team’s leading scorer,” Dickinson said. “The year we went for it in junior, I had 78 points. I was fifth on the team in points. I wasn’t our leading point scorer. I was our 200-foot centerman that we could trust in the D-zone that would also chip in offensively. Last year, sure, I had 18 goals in 42 games in the (AHL), but by no means was I our Travis Morin or Justin Dowling, guys who go out there and put up points. I was trying to play hard at both ends of the ice. For me, it was so hard because I wanted to come in and I wanted to have that offensive impact, but I was trying to put myself outside of my game and I ended up not doing anything. I ended up not doing anything because I was trying so hard to be offensive, but those offensive instincts aren’t my game the way it is in Seggy. He has those offensive instincts.”

So Dickinson himself is saying he's not a scorer. So I wouldn't really count on him for consistent depth scoring, meaning his ceiling is 3rd line center. This is another first round pick folks.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:57 am

Haha. Talk about managing expectations when the player himself is like, "tap the brakes, I'm no Justin Dowling here."
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:00 am

I know. Such lofty offensive goals he has to one day be able to score like career AHLers.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:27 am

Troy McClure wrote:
wonko80 wrote:That's amazing. What's really amazing is Honka being up there yet he's only played in 26 games. Both he and Val are on pace for (if they played a whole season) 110 shots without a goal.

I mean... Honka has now played the equivalent of a full NHL season, and as I've said before, he's put up point totals that even Craig Ludwig would call a down year. And this is a kid who is supposed to be an offensive specialist.


Julius Honka: Not A Prospect (I am a link so click me)

As I write this on Sunday evening, the sum total of Honka’s career as a Dallas Star is 83 games played, two goals, 11 assists, and 13 points. His formerly impressive possession numbers have eroded to 51.6% CF. Sure, if those numbers were from a single contiguous season they’d make Honka a lead pipe lock on Dallas’ second forward line, but for a top 15 pick, they’re a staggering disappointment.

The bottom line is that Julius Honka has not played significant hockey since being drafted, and when he has played, Honka has struggled to make himself indispensable. There is no world in which the Stars could flip this player for significant assets, not as the centerpiece in the deal.


The cold reality is that Julius Honka is the latest in a long, brutal line of Dallas first rounders to not pan out. Mark Fistric, Scott Glennie, Jamie Oleksiak, Jack Campbell, these are his contemporaries. The scuffling Stars absolutely need to go out and find scoring, they’re just going to need an awful lot more than Julius Honka — either on or off the ice — to find it.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:31 am

Now scroll down to the comments to see page after page of excuses.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:31 am

wonko80 wrote:I know. Such lofty offensive goals he has to one day be able to score like career AHLers.


The Stars consistently draft these "character" guys who project to be good 3rd-line players but have this unreasonable expectation that they will suddenly be a 20-goal scorer at the NHL level. It's ridiculous, and it probably does more to harm player development than most anything else the Stars do. If they would draft properly, a guy like Dickinson can thrive as a bottom-six player, chip in 10 or so goals, and make sure that when the top lines aren't on the ice, the Stars aren't dead in the water. Instead, Dickinson is trying to be Seguin out there, and it means he doesn't properly grow and develop as a player, which sets everything back.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:32 am

I read both that and the piece about trading for scoring on DBD. The commenters there are mostly stupid. They name off half the roster as "untouchable" as though we are some team that is one and only one piece away from being a powerhouse. This is a team that never makes the playoffs and is currently barely in the race. Why list Faksa as untouchable? What if he got you Stone or Panarin? I'm not sure he would, but who knows?

Also, they still seem to think Honka has value when the article proved he does not and continue to *goddess* about how he was misused and wah, wah, wah. I'm telling you, if two entire coaching staffs decided to scratch him over AHL level defenseman, then there's not any argument to be made that it's just them not giving him a chance.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:33 am

Troy McClure wrote:Now scroll down to the comments to see page after page of excuses.


Actually, the top comment?

I didn’t realise how bad our 1st round drafting was until The Hockey Guy posted a video on the whole Benn/Seguin/Lites debacle. I looked and had to go all the way back to Brendan Morrow to find a first rounder that worked out in Dallas’ favor (apart from Miro.) That’s right, 1997 was the last time we drafted a player that worked out well for Dallas. Obviously, Miro is a legit D-Man a team builds around. It’s too soon to guess what Ty Dellandrea and Riley Tufte will show us, but we can speculate.

1998 – Traded 1st away – (Traded NJ their 1st rounder (Scott Gomez) for NJ’s two second rounders (#39-John Erskine) (#57-Tyler Bouck)
1999 – Traded 1st Away – (Traded 1999 second round pick (#32-Michael Ryan), 1999 third round pick (#96-Mathias Tjarnqvist) to Stars for 1999 first round pick (#28-Kristian Kudroc)
2000 – Steve Ott – (Gave us some decent years, ended up giving us Derek Roy)
2001 – Jason Bacashihua (Bad 1st round Goalie pick.)
2002 – Martin Vagner (1 Assist in 38 games)
2003 – Traded 1st Away for Ducks two 2nds (Ducks Drafted Corey Perry – Stars drafted Vojtech Polak & B.J. Crombeen.)
2004 – Mark Fistric (Traded for 3rd Rounder pick – Niklas Hansson)
2005 – Matt Niskanen (Traded with Neal for Goose and now has his name on Lord Stanley’s Cup.)
2006 – Ivan Vishnevskiy – (Traded to Atlanta for Kari Lehtonen)
2007 – Traded 1st Away – Stars traded their 1st with Mathias Tjarnqvist for Ladislav Nagy (Pick was flipped and Riley Nash was eventually drafted.)
2008 – Traded 1st Away – (Traded Mattias Norstrom, Konstantin Pushkarev, 2007 third round pick (#64-Sergei Korostin), 2007 fourth round pick (#94-Maxim Mayorov) to Stars for Jaroslav Modry, Johan Fransson, 2007 second round pick (#52-Oscar Moller), 2007 third round pick (#82-Bryan Cameron), 2008 first round pick (#28-Viktor Tikhonov).
2009 – Scott Glennie
2010 – Jack Campbell (Traded for Nick Ebert.)
2011 – Jamie Oleksiak (conditional fourth-round pick in 2019 NHL Entry Draft)
2012 – Radek Faksa
2013 – Valeri Nichushkin (Good rookie season followed injury, less than stellar year, Russia, and back.)
2014 – Julius Honka (Read above)
2015 – Denis Gurianov
2016 – Riley Tufte
2017 – Miro Heiskanen (legit)
2018 – Ty Dellandrea



Whoof.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:40 am

What's crazy is fans complaining about guys like Honka, Gurianov, and Hintz not being given playing time. Then the Stars do call them back up or put them in the lineup, and those guys put up zeros in the box score game after game. Gurianov was given almost three weeks to show what he could do, and he did nothing. When he was sent down, the reaction was just stupid. Hintz has now been up quite a while, and he's out there Tom Wandelling it up. Honka get a few games in a row and does squat.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:01 pm

In all fairness, if you give Seguin 7 minutes a night on the fourth line once every three games, he would also produce absolutely nothing. Just look at Spezza's numbers last season.

It's a problem of development and coaching. Perennially successful teams put their talented young guys in positions to succeed. Perennially mediocre teams do not. I would not be surprised one bit if Honka went to Pittsburgh and started to regularly put up 40-point seasons. He's obviously got the talent and ability. But he hasn't yet had the coach.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:12 pm

ToddM wrote:In all fairness, if you give Seguin 7 minutes a night on the fourth line once every three games, he would also produce absolutely nothing. Just look at Spezza's numbers last season.

It's a problem of development and coaching. Perennially successful teams put their talented young guys in positions to succeed. Perennially mediocre teams do not. I would not be surprised one bit if Honka went to Pittsburgh and started to regularly put up 40-point seasons. He's obviously got the talent and ability. But he hasn't yet had the coach.


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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:28 pm

ToddM wrote:In all fairness, if you give Seguin 7 minutes a night on the fourth line once every three games, he would also produce absolutely nothing. Just look at Spezza's numbers last season.

It's a problem of development and coaching. Perennially successful teams put their talented young guys in positions to succeed. Perennially mediocre teams do not. I would not be surprised one bit if Honka went to Pittsburgh and started to regularly put up 40-point seasons. He's obviously got the talent and ability. But he hasn't yet had the coach.


The Stars were playing Gurianov on the top line.

And multiple coaches in professional leagues have determined that their team is better without Honka on the ice. That's not Hitchcock being Hitchcock.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:43 pm

ToddM wrote:In all fairness, if you give Seguin 7 minutes a night on the fourth line once every three games, he would also produce absolutely nothing. Just look at Spezza's numbers last season.

It's a problem of development and coaching. Perennially successful teams put their talented young guys in positions to succeed. Perennially mediocre teams do not. I would not be surprised one bit if Honka went to Pittsburgh and started to regularly put up 40-point seasons. He's obviously got the talent and ability. But he hasn't yet had the coach.

And yet, Klingberg, Lindell, and Heiskanen have all managed to win regular spots playing big minutes and producing all while Honka is fighting off scratches. Is it the coach, or is it Honka who just can’t do anything no matter what opportunity he’s handed?

And the only forward getting seven minutes every third game on the fourth line is Ritchie. Gurianov and Hintz have played almost exclusively in the top six with decent ice time.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:45 pm

wonko80 wrote:I read both that and the piece about trading for scoring on DBD. The commenters there are mostly stupid. They name off half the roster as "untouchable" as though we are some team that is one and only one piece away from being a powerhouse. This is a team that never makes the playoffs and is currently barely in the race. Why list Faksa as untouchable? What if he got you Stone or Panarin? I'm not sure he would, but who knows?

Also, they still seem to think Honka has value when the article proved he does not and continue to *goddess* about how he was misused and wah, wah, wah. I'm telling you, if two entire coaching staffs decided to scratch him over AHL level defenseman, then there's not any argument to be made that it's just them not giving him a chance.


It makes the lack of the EK trade this summer even more bitter for me. I bet Ottawa is so glad that they chose to trade with SJ rather than us now that we have seen the big bag of nothing they would have gotten in return with Honka. I wish we had gotten that deal done before the cat was out of the bag.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:13 pm

I doubt Honka was the centerpiece of that trade. Most likely Hintz, but any value he has may be falling fast.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:41 pm

slaps wrote:
ToddM wrote:In all fairness, if you give Seguin 7 minutes a night on the fourth line once every three games, he would also produce absolutely nothing. Just look at Spezza's numbers last season.

It's a problem of development and coaching. Perennially successful teams put their talented young guys in positions to succeed. Perennially mediocre teams do not. I would not be surprised one bit if Honka went to Pittsburgh and started to regularly put up 40-point seasons. He's obviously got the talent and ability. But he hasn't yet had the coach.


The Stars were playing Gurianov on the top line.

And multiple coaches in professional leagues have determined that their team is better without Honka on the ice. That's not Hitchcock being Hitchcock.


Gurianov is getting ten minutes a night, and his time on the top line was usually only about 5-6 shifts in the first period. Even less with Hintz.

Under Hitch, the Stars were a .600 team with Honka in, and a .450 team without. No idea what their Honka/Honkaless ratio is this season, but it's likely similar.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:43 pm

Another important thing to note is that, even while almost every single one of our forwards is having a down year, literally every single one of our d-men are having career years (yes, even Honka!). Even normally stay-at-home lumberjacks like Polak are skating up ice and deep around the opposing net looking to score.

So when the d-men activate, who goes back to cover on D? A forward. And it's pretty hard to rack up points from 70 feet away. Monty's system is great for d-men, and pretty shitty for forwards. Keep that in mind when you're dissing on our young forwards for not producing more. It's Monty's system that inhibits that more than anything else.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:44 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:It makes the lack of the EK trade this summer even more bitter for me. I bet Ottawa is so glad that they chose to trade with SJ rather than us now that we have seen the big bag of nothing they would have gotten in return with Honka. I wish we had gotten that deal done before the cat was out of the bag.


Ottawa wanted Heiskanen, not Honka.

Hard pass.

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