1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

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Troy McClure
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1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:47 am

Not to be a downer, but let's take a peak at how the two young offensive studs from the AHL are doing:

Hintz: zero points in his last seven games. 3 points in 16 games so far this season.
Guarianov: zero points in his last five games. 3 points in 10 games so far this season.

I know. I know. "But they need more time." "Be patient." "They're young."

It just sucks. It sucks because almost every game, some team rolls in here with one or two young players who are flying around and putting up numbers. When you go up and down the scoring leaderboard, it's full of really young players who are doing awesome things. This league is having an offensive renaissance, and much of that is thanks to a bunch of skilled young guys who are getting it done.

Yes, I'm jealous. On that note, 19 year old Nico Hischier rolls into town tonight with the Devils. He has as many points as all of Nill's forward draft picks added together (Dickinson, Nichushkin, Hintz, and Guarianov).
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby mookie1010 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:56 am

I'm telling you - Monty's current system sucks.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:59 am

But Val looked good last game and had one assist. That must mean he's about to break out, right?

[goes to game log]

Oh, it's his first assist in 7 games (and 2nd in 19 games). Yes, surely this will be the start of him actually contributing offense despite his entire track record this season.
Last edited by wonko80 on Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:00 pm

mookie1010 wrote:I'm telling you - Monty's current system sucks.

Maybe it's the players who suck? What kind of system do you put in place that this team can generate offense from AND not be *fargin'* terrible on defense? I think with this roster you pick on or the other and they've picked defense.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:02 pm

wonko80 wrote:But Val looked good last game and had one assist. That must mean he's about to break out, right?

[goes to game log]

Oh, it's his first assist in 7 games. Yes, surely this will be the start of him actually contributing offense despite his entire track record this season.

Also, Hintz "looked great" last game and really "created" offense. Except for the not scoring or getting an assist part. But sure, he's fine.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby slaps » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:06 pm

mookie1010 wrote:I'm telling you - Monty's current system sucks.


Interesting DBD article on that today:

https://www.defendingbigd.com/2019/1/2/ ... deployment

I could go on, but I don’t want to rag on Montgomery too much. Despite what you might think by now, I actually like him as a coach. I like how straightforward he is when it comes to why players are getting scratched, his “player’s coach” approach to the locker room, and that he ultimately seems to realize that he and his coaching staff need to be better.

What I have to wonder is what Montgomery considers “better.” As a rookie head coach with no prior NHL experience, there is a huge learning curve that everyone expected heading into this season. And perhaps my biggest worry is that in trying to adapt to the NHL, Montgomery adapts the “wrong way.”

Consider this — after preaching a possession-heavy, offensive-based system heading into the year, Montgomery was suddenly faced with a blue line operating at maybe 33% capacity about 20 games into the year. Let’s say that as a response, he decided to abandon his ideal system momentarily and coach what was familiar to his players from the previous season: shutdown defensive hockey that tries to edge out 2-1 victories by “turtling” every time they have a lead in the third period.

Now the Stars have two of their defenders back in John Klingberg and Connor Carrick, and the team is still holding down a Wild Card spot. Maybe he starts to think that puck possession and a high-octane offense isn’t necessary to win after all. If the top line plus Klingberg and Heiskanen can score enough, then perhaps all he needs to do is employ the likes of Comeau, Faksa, and Roman Polak to bunker down and preserve a one-goal lead to get the W.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby ToddM » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:30 pm

Nico was given first-line minutes right away, despite obvious defensive deficiences and prolonged scoring slumps.

Roope amd Gurianov are given eight minutes a night, including, what, 5 or 6 shifts apiece on the top line, before Radulov slides back in there for the rest of the game.

It's the same problem we had with Hitch: when you never give minutes to your young guys, they never develop, amd they will never help you later on in the season when the vets invariably falter/get injured. Other teams seem to realize this. Monty seemed to realize it last summer. At least he talked about it.

I give Ruff a lot of *poo poo* for his final season here, but at least he saw the potential value in starting Lindell with Klingberg, even tho Lindell was getting absolutely eaten alive every shift. We're seeing tremendous benefits from that (coach-killing) decision now.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby B Kat » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:56 pm

While I agree, they need to give those youngsters more minutes in general to work out their game, Roope and Gurianov aren't the same kind of talent as Nico.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:29 pm

It's easy to decide to give youngsters big minutes when you either are winning games or know you're gonna suck. When you are a perennial bubble team who craves to just maybe make the playoffs, you cling to any win you can get which means playing the vets who (theoretically) know how to close out a game.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:41 pm

mookie1010 wrote:I'm telling you - Monty's current system sucks.


I don't know. The product currently reminds me of a Dave Tippett Phoenix team. Pretty uninspiring in that there's not a lot of creativity, and you're relying on grinding, flinging wristshots at the net and hoping for rebounds, etc. If there's a fancystat out there somewhere that compares scoring chances per zone time for the team as a whole, I would bet you we have pretty good offensive zone time, but don't generate a ton of scoring chances.

That said, maybe Tip only ran that system in Phoenix because he had no talent to work with. My eyeballs tell me it's a talent issue more so than a system issue.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:43 pm

ToddM wrote:Nico was given first-line minutes right away, despite obvious defensive deficiences and prolonged scoring slumps.

Roope amd Gurianov are given eight minutes a night, including, what, 5 or 6 shifts apiece on the top line, before Radulov slides back in there for the rest of the game.

It's the same problem we had with Hitch: when you never give minutes to your young guys, they never develop, amd they will never help you later on in the season when the vets invariably falter/get injured. Other teams seem to realize this. Monty seemed to realize it last summer. At least he talked about it.

I give Ruff a lot of *poo poo* for his final season here, but at least he saw the potential value in starting Lindell with Klingberg, even tho Lindell was getting absolutely eaten alive every shift. We're seeing tremendous benefits from that (coach-killing) decision now.


The difference is Nico clearly has talent. It's not an automatic formula where you can take a 22 year old player, give him 20 minutes a night, and he magically grows into a top line player. You have to have something there to work with initially, and none of our prospects really have that, so there's not a lot of point to giving them big minutes.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:55 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:
mookie1010 wrote:I'm telling you - Monty's current system sucks.


I don't know. The product currently reminds me of a Dave Tippett Phoenix team. Pretty uninspiring in that there's not a lot of creativity, and you're relying on grinding, flinging wristshots at the net and hoping for rebounds, etc. If there's a fancystat out there somewhere that compares scoring chances per zone time for the team as a whole, I would bet you we have pretty good offensive zone time, but don't generate a ton of scoring chances.

That said, maybe Tip only ran that system in Phoenix because he had no talent to work with. My eyeballs tell me it's a talent issue more so than a system issue.

Same here. Other than winning faceoffs, nothing about how the team plays matches Monty's preseason talk about what he wants his teams to do, but he also doesn't exactly have the skaters to do what he wants. For him to keep the team in a playoff race while, at times, skating three AHLers on D for an extended stretch was pretty darn impressive.

Unfortunately for us, it's also dreadfully boring to watch because they are trying to scrape out a bunch of 1-0 or 2-1 wins. Because of the severe lack of offensive talent in the forward group, he can't try to win with the high flying transition game Ruff rolled out. These forwards aren't as fast or as good as the ones Ruff had. Whatever else we thought of the rest of their games, the depth guys like Garbutt, Fiddler, Roussel, Eakin, etc. could skate really fast, which made playing a fast transition game that hoped to out score the opposition one Ruff could try.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby ToddM » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:58 pm

Well, Nico was also a first-overall pick, so there's that. You could also argue that Heiskanen, taken two picks later, is the far superior player, and a better comparison based on where he was selected in the draft.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby slaps » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:07 pm

Relevant:

League scoring is red-lighting at about 6.2 goals per game this season, the highest rate in more than 20 years. So you might expect scoring to be up on an individual basis, and you’d be absolutely right. Seven players are on pace for 50 goals, including the Toronto Maple Leafs’ Auston Matthews, who’s on track to score 52 times even though he’s missed 14 games. Not to mention, 14 players are on track to reach 100 or more points, after only three players hit 100 points last year.


https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/ ... have-goals
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:10 pm

I'm trying to go look at Hintz and Gurianov and their past production in other leagues. Neither seem to have ever been amongst the league leaders in scoring, so it shouldn't really come as a huge surprise that they aren't natural scorers here.

Hintz
In 17-18 for the AHL he was 319th in PPG (.50) for the season. 319th! That sure screams "top line prospect".
In Liiga, he was 31st in PPG for the last season he was there.

Guryanov
In 17-18 AHL we was 377th in PPG. It should be noted that Bayreuther was right behind him at 387th (.46 PPG vs .45 PPG).
In 16-17 AHL he was basically the same at 338th (.47 PPG).

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby Knives Out » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:23 pm

Taylor Hall placed on IR and Mackenzie Blackwood getting the start.

Total trap game.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby B Kat » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:09 pm

No name goalie MacKenzie Blackwood had two shutouts his last two games. He’s definitely due to fall apart. :|

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:16 pm

Mackenzie Blackwood sounds like a porn name.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby slaps » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:40 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:
ToddM wrote:Nico was given first-line minutes right away, despite obvious defensive deficiences and prolonged scoring slumps.

Roope amd Gurianov are given eight minutes a night, including, what, 5 or 6 shifts apiece on the top line, before Radulov slides back in there for the rest of the game.

It's the same problem we had with Hitch: when you never give minutes to your young guys, they never develop, amd they will never help you later on in the season when the vets invariably falter/get injured. Other teams seem to realize this. Monty seemed to realize it last summer. At least he talked about it.

I give Ruff a lot of *poo poo* for his final season here, but at least he saw the potential value in starting Lindell with Klingberg, even tho Lindell was getting absolutely eaten alive every shift. We're seeing tremendous benefits from that (coach-killing) decision now.


The difference is Nico clearly has talent. It's not an automatic formula where you can take a 22 year old player, give him 20 minutes a night, and he magically grows into a top line player. You have to have something there to work with initially, and none of our prospects really have that, so there's not a lot of point to giving them big minutes.


The Stars are playing the hell out of Heiskanen. But then again, he’s got tons of talent.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:41 pm

Hey look, a stupid offensive zone penalty by Radulov.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:43 pm

Troy McClure wrote:Hey look, a stupid offensive zone penalty by Radulov.


Followed by a Kari Special first shot goal.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:45 pm

slaps wrote:
ScubaSteve wrote:
ToddM wrote:Nico was given first-line minutes right away, despite obvious defensive deficiences and prolonged scoring slumps.

Roope amd Gurianov are given eight minutes a night, including, what, 5 or 6 shifts apiece on the top line, before Radulov slides back in there for the rest of the game.

It's the same problem we had with Hitch: when you never give minutes to your young guys, they never develop, amd they will never help you later on in the season when the vets invariably falter/get injured. Other teams seem to realize this. Monty seemed to realize it last summer. At least he talked about it.

I give Ruff a lot of *poo poo* for his final season here, but at least he saw the potential value in starting Lindell with Klingberg, even tho Lindell was getting absolutely eaten alive every shift. We're seeing tremendous benefits from that (coach-killing) decision now.


The difference is Nico clearly has talent. It's not an automatic formula where you can take a 22 year old player, give him 20 minutes a night, and he magically grows into a top line player. You have to have something there to work with initially, and none of our prospects really have that, so there's not a lot of point to giving them big minutes.


The Stars are playing the hell out of Heiskanen. But then again, he’s got tons of talent.

Right, but there’s no need to make excuses for good rookies.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:55 pm

What a pathetic PP. couldn’t even get in the zone.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:56 pm

The Devils are having a very easy time pushing Gurianov around.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:01 pm

Troy McClure wrote:What a pathetic PP. couldn’t even get in the zone.

The Stars really need to start declining penalties.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:04 pm

Still from within 5 ft lol.
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby slaps » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:05 pm

That 2009 footage of Ribeiro looked like it was from 1971. What the hell?
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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:15 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:Still from within 5 ft lol.

I know. Obviously any goal is better than no goal, but this also isn't some sort of statement about his play either. All the other things Lites talked about are still true.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby One_Timer » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:23 pm

wonko80 wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:What a pathetic PP. couldn’t even get in the zone.

The Stars really need to start declining penalties.


That would make headlines, which they apparently need.

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Re: 1/2/2019 - Stars vs Devils 7:30 pm

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:38 pm

Attaboy, Miro
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