2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:41 pm

Troy McClure wrote:
slaps wrote:That would be fine. I can find something else to watch half the time.

Also, it’s pretty clear that the Stars succeeded in spite of Bowness, and were coming back down to what they would be generally with him as a coach when everything paused. So hopefully he won’t last long if they keep him.

Yeah, Bowness got very lucky with the virus stopping the season. The Stars were in a tailspin of suck.

A few places have done fancystat dives into Bowness and he sucks according to those too.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:49 pm

The better goaltending in the late 90s was offset by the high frequency of Matvichuk own goals.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Math » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:13 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:Early 90's hockey was pretty fun because they scored a lot. But, when good goaltending became a thing and Lemaire introduced the trap, it all went downhill.

I still remember a few 0-0 ties back in that era.

Good point, I loved 90's hockey games cause also in the sense it was more rock'n'roll. There were significant differences in systems and style, hockey epic fights which was an entire part of the game, players wearing mustaches with mullets. The atmosphere in the stands were something else too, a bunch of teams really feared to play in some hostile arenas.

The bad thing is not that Lemaire (followed then by his padawans) introduced the trap, it's when people realized it worked when defensive-minded teams started to be successful.

The late 90's were also terrible in terms of hockey design. Remember the virus green/eggplant purple color scheme of the Mighty Ducks, the Isles' fisherman, the Blues' asymmetrical numbers with red, The Preds' mustard yellow, the oilman of Edmonton, etc...

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:41 pm

I see they let Eddie out of jail because of the coronavirus.

https://www.nhl.com/stars/video/belfour-moog-razor-talk-stars/t-277437402/c-5377223

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:25 pm

Damn if this isn't spot on:

https://www.defendingbigd.com/2020/4/27 ... m-too-yeah

But of course, the Kings won as the eight seed, the Blues last year were rubbish for half the year, and so on. Anything can happen. But with the Dallas Stars in the 21st century, the “anything” tends to be the other thing. And, given the team’s willing embrace of a slow, defensive system that relies upon perfection in net until such time as one of the team’s three designated goal-scorers can find the net, it’s probably safe to say that none of us feels optimistic about those fortunes reversing course in whatever playoffs might be played this year.

I hate, hate, hate that the Stars have actively embraced and steered into this awful style of play.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:50 pm

Say you were a GM, what style would you embrace when the two players who take up 1/3 of your salary cap can’t play with speed anymore and you hitched your wagon to them for the next decade?
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:56 pm

Just got an email from the Stars saying that I can apply the credit for the unused 2019/20 regular season tickets towards my 2020/21 season ticket renewal payments. The email specifically says that doesn't mean the regular season is cancelled. But reading between the lines I feel pretty safe in saying there will be no regular season games with fans in attendance (Mr. Obvious here).

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:32 pm

How many regular season home games were left?

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:54 pm

Seven if I recall correctly.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:40 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:Say you were a GM, what style would you embrace when the two players who take up 1/3 of your salary cap can’t play with speed anymore and you hitched your wagon to them for the next decade?

I might look to add speed to the rest of the forward group to account for the fact those top guys are slowing down. Instead, this GM added Corey Perry and Joe Pavelski, two of the slowest forwards in the NHL.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:04 am

https://theathletic.com/1703511/2020/04/29/the-gifted-the-stars-will-get-the-most-out-of-thomas-harley-by-unleashing-him/

And when the game was over, I left the Paramount Fine Foods Center with three thoughts:

1 - He’s the first player I’m locking in for the 2020 iteration of The Gifted.
2 - Harley might be NHL-ready now.
3 - His NHL career has two potential trajectories. There’s the outcome where he’s taught and/or learns to reign himself in. In that scenario, he’s probably a competent, possession-driving middle pair defenceman. Then there’s the outcome where a coach gives him a longer leash, unleashing what I believe to the best version of Harley. This version has some risk to it, might make him a polarizing player among fans, but has a considerably higher ceiling.

Here, I’m going to outline why I think that second outcome is the best for Harley’s game. I will also detail the tools needed to successfully play that style of game (all of which he has), as well as how the coaching he gets may determine the type of player he ends up becoming.

I’ve seen him, as recently as Team Canada’s selection camp in nearby Oakville, try to play a safer game in an effort to fit into a third-pairing role and earn the trust of a new set of coaches. And I hate that version of Harley because it doesn’t take advantage of his natural gifts and it tries to cater, rightly or wrongly, to the worst kind of hockey coach: the risk-averse one.

So, the Stars wasted this pick based on their organizational structure and the type of coaches they hire.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:50 am

Didn't Bowness help develop Hedman?

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:23 am

Heiskanen is pretty neutered based on what we were promised. He’s reliable and easily the best defenseman on the team, but he plays so reserved. Rarely makes mistakes, but also rarely takes risks. I would expect to see the same from Harley.

But that said, Harley looked ready to me at training camp last year. If we weren’t stuffed to the brim with guys like Polak, Sekera, Johns, and Fedun, he probably would’ve made the roster out of camp.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:53 am

I can't tell if Miro is being coached to take less risks or he is just a bit naturally risk averse. Although I will say it seems like I noticed him less and less on offense as the season went on, so the coaching change could for sure have had an impact on him.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:58 am

ScubaSteve wrote:Heiskanen is pretty neutered based on what we were promised. He’s reliable and easily the best defenseman on the team, but he plays so reserved. Rarely makes mistakes, but also rarely takes risks. I would expect to see the same from Harley.

But that said, Harley looked ready to me at training camp last year. If we weren’t stuffed to the brim with guys like Polak, Sekera, Johns, and Fedun, he probably would’ve made the roster out of camp.

Nill is so terrified of putting his garbage on waivers. That's why Harley had no shot of making the team no matter what he did in camp and preseason.

And yeah, Heiskanen is an interesting problem. Is his ultra safe play just who he is, or is he being coached to not take chances? He has all the shooting, skating, and stickhandling skill you could want in a player, but he's seldom taking advantage of that in the offensive end, and it shows up in his good but not great stats.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Math » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:59 am

He's finn, so there's that.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:14 am

wonko80 wrote:I can't tell if Miro is being coached to take less risks or he is just a bit naturally risk averse. Although I will say it seems like I noticed him less and less on offense as the season went on, so the coaching change could for sure have had an impact on him.

Go look at Heiskanen's numbers, and then go look at those from the guy drafted right after him. Makar was on pace to finish his rookie season just behind Heiskanen's two season career total in points. Then also look at what Hughes is doing in Vancouver. Or even look at the 27 guys ahead of Heiskanen on the d scoring list. He looks like he has to be better than this.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:10 am

Hard to score points when the only plays you're told to make are rim it around the boards or throw a point shot on net.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:35 pm

Yeah, point totals are pretty much 70% coaching style. Makar scores like a beast because he's amazingly talented (remember, we seriously considered taking him instead of Miro), but also because the Avs aren't coached by someone who sits on 1-0 first period leads. The Avs in general trust their talented young guys more than most teams, and are benefiting tremendously from it.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:33 pm

HOLY. *poo poo*. The time between faceoffs in these games is excruciating. There's literally a minute and a half stoppage on icings. Listening to Ralph and Razor filibuster during these lollygagging sessions while lines are changing is sort of entertaining, but can we move it along please?

The quick faceoffs rule is the best rule change the NHL ever made.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Fri May 01, 2020 8:29 am

I got downvoted into oblivion on Reddit for saying that watching old hockey games (mid-90's to early 2000's) is painful. The hockey is not good. As much as we *goddess* about stuff these days, I'll take speed and skill over wrestling on ice any day.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Fri May 01, 2020 8:35 am

ScubaSteve wrote:HOLY. *poo poo*. The time between faceoffs in these games is excruciating. There's literally a minute and a half stoppage on icings. Listening to Ralph and Razor filibuster during these lollygagging sessions while lines are changing is sort of entertaining, but can we move it along please?

The quick faceoffs rule is the best rule change the NHL ever made.

So is no-touch icing. The amount of time wasted by a guy skating back to touch it is dumb.

It's still amazing to see how far goaltending has come. Belfour was great, but he makes some things look way harder than goalies today do.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Math » Fri May 01, 2020 9:25 am

Plante, Dryden, Worsley, Tretiak, Fuhr were considered absolutely dominant in their respective eras. I'm wondering how would they perform in today's game and at which point their role would be important in the team.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Fri May 01, 2020 9:59 am

Welp, Stars furloughed 20% of their staff for 60 days. I'm only shocked that it took this long for them to do it. I'm sure many other teams will follow.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Fri May 01, 2020 10:16 am

slaps wrote:I got downvoted into oblivion on Reddit for saying that watching old hockey games (mid-90's to early 2000's) is painful. The hockey is not good. As much as we *goddess* about stuff these days, I'll take speed and skill over wrestling on ice any day.

Let me be clear, I enjoy the actual hockey more than the current product, even though today’s players, coaching, and training today are immensely better. The 90s product had some much space and creativity. It’s the longggggg stoppages that annoy me.

I also think the two line pass rule should be reinstituted. Their original goal removing that rule was to create more scoring chances and fewer stoppages. While it accomplished the goal of creating fewer whistles, it actually ended up creating fewer scoring chances. Watch every team now, every breakout is a stretch pass, tip into the zone, then change. It’s de facto legalized icing as long as someone tips the puck on it’s way to the other zone. Take that option away again, and you’ll force teams to have to use skill to exit the zone with skill and you’ll see way more turnovers and scoring chances.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Fri May 01, 2020 10:17 am

wonko80 wrote:Welp, Stars furloughed 20% of their staff for 60 days. I'm only shocked that it took this long for them to do it. I'm sure many other teams will follow.

The Sabres are going to take the cake for how they handled this. Apparently, two weeks before their layoffs/furloughs, the Sabres went to all of their employees asking for donations to the team's charitable foundation.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Fri May 01, 2020 11:25 am

Math wrote:Plante, Dryden, Worsley, Tretiak, Fuhr were considered absolutely dominant in their respective eras. I'm wondering how would they perform in today's game and at which point their role would be important in the team.

Fuhr's best save percentage in a season was .903%. That's abysmal. I realize goaltending wasn't a thing, but I don't think the older goalies would be anywhere near as dominant today.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Fri May 01, 2020 11:27 am

ScubaSteve wrote:
slaps wrote:I got downvoted into oblivion on Reddit for saying that watching old hockey games (mid-90's to early 2000's) is painful. The hockey is not good. As much as we *goddess* about stuff these days, I'll take speed and skill over wrestling on ice any day.

Let me be clear, I enjoy the actual hockey more than the current product, even though today’s players, coaching, and training today are immensely better. The 90s product had some much space and creativity. It’s the longggggg stoppages that annoy me.

I also think the two line pass rule should be reinstituted. Their original goal removing that rule was to create more scoring chances and fewer stoppages. While it accomplished the goal of creating fewer whistles, it actually ended up creating fewer scoring chances. Watch every team now, every breakout is a stretch pass, tip into the zone, then change. It’s de facto legalized icing as long as someone tips the puck on it’s way to the other zone. Take that option away again, and you’ll force teams to have to use skill to exit the zone with skill and you’ll see way more turnovers and scoring chances.

Really? I can't stand watching older hockey. The only reason there was more space is because one guy had tackled another guy and took them both out of the play.
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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Fri May 01, 2020 12:14 pm

slaps wrote:
Math wrote:Plante, Dryden, Worsley, Tretiak, Fuhr were considered absolutely dominant in their respective eras. I'm wondering how would they perform in today's game and at which point their role would be important in the team.

Fuhr's best save percentage in a season was .903%. That's abysmal. I realize goaltending wasn't a thing, but I don't think the older goalies would be anywhere near as dominant today.

I had this discussion with the boys the other night. I think if you took Ed Belfour (or Patrick Roy, etc.) and had them come up in today's game, learning the style of play today, that most of the "greats" would still be great. Maybe not so much from the 40s/50s, but I think the talented goalies from the 80s/90s could easily translate if they had learned today's style of play. The biggest challenge would be their size - a lot of those guys were 6' to 6'2". Ken Dryden was pretty big at 6'4", but he was an outlier.

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Re: 2019-2020 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Fri May 01, 2020 12:42 pm

Bishop would've had like a .970 save percentage if he'd played in the 70s.

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