5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

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ToddM
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby ToddM » Thu May 02, 2019 8:38 am

AJ I think was on the Isles/Canes game beforehand, and she' fine, if unspectacular. I think the real problem is that we've had the best of the best for 20 years, and everyone else sounds like hot dogshit.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu May 02, 2019 9:00 am

She claimed that Thomas tried to carry the Blues but that the rest of the team in front of him failed. I didn't see that at all.
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby slaps » Thu May 02, 2019 9:01 am

NBC just wants to talk about the Blues. "The Stars are leading 4-1, so we better spend all game talking about how the Blues aren't doing well and what this means for the Blues."

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby cdanew » Thu May 02, 2019 9:03 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:She claimed that Thomas tried to carry the Blues but that the rest of the team in front of him failed. I didn't see that at all.


Was at the game, so I didn't hear her commentary, but Thomas was probably the Blues' best player last night.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby cdanew » Thu May 02, 2019 9:23 am

Hockey culture is a weird thing.

There were so many hockey pundits who eviscerated Lindell for his dive (despite the fact he had actually been cross checked several times before finally going down since the refs weren't going to actually call that *poo poo*), wailed that it was the most embarrassing action possible and branded Lindell with a scarlet letter for the rest of his career.

For example, here's Kerry Fraser:


And here he was in a follow-up article on The Athletic:
“As an old-school kind of hockey mind … to watch players fake and embellish, for me, it’s an attack on the game and the character of the game and the strength of the players almost universally that we’ve come to respect as to why we love the game,” Fraser told The Athletic. “So when I see guys out there (doing this), No. 1, they’re cheating. They’re trying to embarrass the referee into calling a penalty, and for me it’s just unacceptable.


But where is the outrage for Perron's two-handed slash to Bishop's back? Where's the outrage for Marchand's punch to the back of Harrington's head (ok, there's a little more noise there since it is Marchand)? Didn't see a peep out of Fraser or others for the non-call on Perron, which to me is as much if not more of an embarrassment to the game than Lindell hitting the ice after legitimately getting cross checked.

So people like Fraser care more about being embarrassed into calling a penalty than actually calling the actual f'ing penalty in the first place. Just maddening.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby Troy McClure » Thu May 02, 2019 9:42 am

Don’t overlook the Canadian bigotry at work. When good old Canadian boys dive, it’s because of how much they want to win. When a dirty Euro dives, it’s ruining the game.
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 02, 2019 9:49 am

Btw, one small pet peeve that’s bugging the crap out if me.

We gonna score on any of these breakaways?

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby slaps » Thu May 02, 2019 9:53 am

Maybe if Kerry Fraser wasn't famous for one of the most blatant non-calls in NHL history, his yammering would be impactful.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby cdanew » Thu May 02, 2019 9:58 am

slaps wrote:Maybe if Kerry Fraser wasn't famous for one of the most blatant non-calls in NHL history, his yammering would be impactful.


If only it was just him. Here's some more from that article (and when it says "The Athletic surveyed" substitute Jeremy Rutherford, the Blues beat writer)

The Athletic surveyed one former NHL player who is now an assistant coach, another former player and a current player, and all agreed that Lindell’s actions were egregious.

“Saw the incident,” the former player and assistant coach texted. “Made me sick to my stomach — looked like soccer.”

The other former NHL player was just as harsh.

“Lindell should be embarrassed for doing what he did,” he texted. “Worst display of softness for playoff hockey.”

The current NHL defenseman, who has faced Lindell several times, said there’s no question he knew who he was involved with.

“Lindell is a strong, physical defenseman in the league,” the current NHL defenseman said. “Clearly he knew he was engaged with Bortuzzo after the first one or two pushes, cross checks. I think he tried to get the call after he knew Bortuzzo was pushing him outside of the scrum. He really tried to embellish it on the second and third check. The refs made the right call taking both guys.”

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu May 02, 2019 10:01 am

I hate to say it, but it looked to me like Bishop dove pretty hard on that slash behind the net. Yes, he DID get slashed, but looked more like a drive by tap than a two-handed chop or anything. And goalies have plenty of padding on their back.
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby cdanew » Thu May 02, 2019 10:15 am

ScubaSteve wrote:I hate to say it, but it looked to me like Bishop dove pretty hard on that slash behind the net. Yes, he DID get slashed, but looked more like a drive by tap than a two-handed chop or anything. And goalies have plenty of padding on their back.


I don't know what specific equipment Bishop wears, but it looks to me like he got hit at the top of the 0 on the right side - a lot of the goalie chest protectors (trust me, I've bought plenty over the years :D ) have some soft padding (much, much thinner than what's on the front obviously) running down the middle along the spine, but the "wings" aren't necessarily covered very well. I'd call Perron's action more than a tap. Maybe compare it to a wrist shot versus a slap shot. And yeah, Bishop may have exaggerated it a bit, but he didn't see it coming and I suspect it was as much to do with the surprise of it compared to the actual potential injury.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 02, 2019 10:22 am

I don’t know. On replay nothing looks that serious. I suspect it was bad.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 02, 2019 10:41 am

Seems like diving is actually pretty common place. It's the only way to guarantee a penalty. The shock and awe over this seems a bit over the top. We see this all the time. We see that guys getting actually hurt can make a big difference in this league. Caused SJ to win in the first round. Also, "drawing blood" is apparently an unwritten rule that warrants another 2 minutes. This is actually not a rule in the NHL even though the league and commentators treat it as if it is. And it's *fargin'* ridiculous.

You can't just keep skating and expect to get a call. Cause no one calls anything. A crosscheck in the back is totally fine if noone is hurt. We see it every game.

This should be easy to solve. Call actual penalties.

Too scary though for the refs.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby ToddM » Thu May 02, 2019 10:42 am

Yeah, getting hit with a weapon in the trapesius is no joke. But having his legs fall out beneath him? Total dive.

Also, this, from Shapiro's recap:

This actually brings up a story that former Stars center Gemel Smith told me in November after he saw the video of Binnington trying to fight Texas.

Smith and Binnington were teammates in the OHL with the Owen Sound Attack. Smith said he loved playing with Binnington and also noted that the goalie always made things interesting because if he was playing well, he was completely locked in. But if the goalie was having a rough night or getting let out to dry, he was ready to do physical damage to opponents in some capacity.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu May 02, 2019 10:43 am

They tried strictly calling all penalties in 05/06 and the game was unbearably stupid. It lasted less than half a season.
Last edited by ScubaSteve on Thu May 02, 2019 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby mookie1010 » Thu May 02, 2019 10:43 am

It's just so weird - like I said, ticky tack stick fouls are called almost 100% on the reg, but a 2 handed slash from behind on an unsuspecting player is just shrugged away. Benn takes a headshot from Subban that could've warranted a suspension, and because he doesn't get hurt, everything is A-OK.

The Benn example is really why players dive.
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 02, 2019 10:44 am

mookie1010 wrote:It's just so weird - like I said, ticky tack stick fouls are called almost 100% on the reg, but a 2 handed slash from behind on an unsuspecting player is just shrugged away. Benn takes a headshot from Subban that could've warranted a suspension, and because he doesn't get hurt, everything is A-OK.

The Benn example is really why players dive.


Also don't accidentally shoot the puck out of play, even if it's clearly an accident. No mercy there.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu May 02, 2019 10:45 am

Jamie also should be labeled as a notorious diver, but he’s Canadian so it’s no big deal.
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby slaps » Thu May 02, 2019 10:47 am

ScubaSteve wrote:I hate to say it, but it looked to me like Bishop dove pretty hard on that slash behind the net. Yes, he DID get slashed, but looked more like a drive by tap than a two-handed chop or anything. And goalies have plenty of padding on their back.



Image

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby slaps » Thu May 02, 2019 10:49 am

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:Seems like diving is actually pretty common place. It's the only way to guarantee a penalty. The shock and awe over this seems a bit over the top. We see this all the time. We see that guys getting actually hurt can make a big difference in this league. Caused SJ to win in the first round.


Yeah, I'm baffled by why everyone is exploding over this. It happens all the time. Every game. It's the only way to get a call 78% of the time.
Last edited by slaps on Thu May 02, 2019 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 02, 2019 10:51 am

It seems like we had multiple diving penalties in the first round. It's interesting that this one is such a big deal. Just lousy acting?

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby B Kat » Thu May 02, 2019 10:51 am

The Stars were down, Lindell was trying to get a call. The dive was lame, and dives are cheating, but some of the pushback is a bit much. Come on. Also, Lindell is going to learn from this going forward, I would bet.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby slaps » Thu May 02, 2019 10:52 am

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:Also, "drawing blood" is apparently an unwritten rule that warrants another 2 minutes. This is actually not a rule in the NHL even though the league and commentators treat it as if it is. And it's *fargin'* ridiculous.



It's a rule. Rule 60.3:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/ ... lebook.pdf

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby BigAl » Thu May 02, 2019 10:52 am

You guys know what else is ridiculous? The fruitless struggles of mankind against a cold, uncaring universe.
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby mookie1010 » Thu May 02, 2019 10:52 am

I think Troy is onto something.
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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby ToddM » Thu May 02, 2019 10:53 am

Remember that article about how the NHL only pays attention to, like, four teams?

Here's the inevitable, hilarious result:

Cogliano wasn’t requested or scheduled to speak but was in the dressing room talking to Brett Ritchie when Stars PR told media members to enter the room and that Benn would be speaking first on the right side of the room.

Television cameras stormed into the right side of the room and surrounded Cogliano and immediately started asking him questions. Maybe it was being quick to draw or maybe it was them not recognizing that Cogliano wasn’t Benn.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 02, 2019 10:56 am

slaps wrote:
The Frugal Gourmet wrote:Also, "drawing blood" is apparently an unwritten rule that warrants another 2 minutes. This is actually not a rule in the NHL even though the league and commentators treat it as if it is. And it's *fargin'* ridiculous.



It's a rule. Rule 60.3:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/ ... lebook.pdf


Lol. Aren't you a lawyer?

"Double-minor Penalty - When a player carries or holds any part of
his stick above the shoulders of the opponent so that injury results,
the Referee shall assess a double-minor penalty for all contact that
causes an injury"

In what universe is a cut that requires a band-aid an "injury"?

Hahahaha

That's not the rule. That's a bullshit interpretation of the rule that somehow became the standard. Because of it, now players are intentionally scratching themselves to draw a little blood by and get the extra minor.

Enforce the actual rule.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby slaps » Thu May 02, 2019 11:01 am

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:
slaps wrote:
The Frugal Gourmet wrote:Also, "drawing blood" is apparently an unwritten rule that warrants another 2 minutes. This is actually not a rule in the NHL even though the league and commentators treat it as if it is. And it's *fargin'* ridiculous.



It's a rule. Rule 60.3:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/ ... lebook.pdf


Lol. Aren't you a lawyer?

"Double-minor Penalty - When a player carries or holds any part of
his stick above the shoulders of the opponent so that injury results,
the Referee shall assess a double-minor penalty for all contact that
causes an injury"

In what universe is a cut that requires a band-aid an "injury"?

Hahahaha

That's not the rule. That's a bullshit interpretation of the rule that somehow became the standard.


You omitted a relevant part: the Referee shall assess a double-minor penalty for all contact that causes an injury, whether accidental or careless, in the opinion of the Referee.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... ish/injury

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/injury

Pretty sure "bleeding" falls into the definition of "injury." And per the rulebook, it's not optional, it's automatic.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby B Kat » Thu May 02, 2019 11:01 am

The Stars seem to be getting to Binnington. Hopefully that works to our advantage. The Perron slash on Bishop wasn't called, but it's been noted. And he has been pissy the whole series, so it's likely he will continue down that path. Frustrating the Preds worked pretty good in the last round. Stars need to keep it up, but stay composed themselves.

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Re: 5/1 Game 4 vs. St. Louis

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 02, 2019 11:06 am

slaps wrote:Pretty sure "bleeding" falls into the definition of "injury." And per the rulebook, it's not optional, it's automatic.


It doesn't.

And people don't use the term injury to describe non-serious cuts in the English language. Ever.

In every commentator's assessment, the key is whether the slash "drew blood" (not the actual rule) and not whether it "injured" the player (the actual rule).

80% of the time it's a surface nick or scratch. If the player is actually harmed, I agree with the penalty being assessed.

This misinterpretation of the rule leads to abuse and stupidity. Drawing blood is not anything. If you pop a zit on some dude's face and it draws blood it shall not warrant two extra minutes.
Last edited by The Frugal Gourmet on Thu May 02, 2019 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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