GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

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Troy McClure
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:14 pm

wonko80 wrote:Holy *poo poo*, some dude named Rudolfs Balcers, which is apparently a real name, has a higher PPG rate than Gurianov this season.

That's totally unfair. He was a really high draft pick fifth rounder who gets a lot more ice time than Gurianov plays less than Gurianov.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby FrozenFailure » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:53 pm

That is a fantastic name. Strong Latvian name. Grows many potatoes.

I don't think we should really be pressing Hintz and Gurianov too hard for their play, given than guys who make More Money and have More Experience are playing like horseshit.

I think the Stars are lacking some actual physical professional guys. They seem like a bunch of goofballs who can't buckle down sometimes. Monty probably doesn't want to take away the goofball aspect because them having fun is a good thing for any organization. But they have to buckle down when the tough gets going.

Where's Hatcher? We need that.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby ToddM » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:15 pm

Rudolfs Balcers is my porn name.

Also scored on his first-everr NHL shot, and hasn't scored since. I mean, other than all the scoring he does with the ladies.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby SaintAngerBH » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:19 pm

Hatcher would literally appear to be motionless if he was on the ice with modern NHL players. He was that slow lol
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:19 pm

FrozenFailure wrote:That is a fantastic name. Strong Latvian name. Grows many potatoes.

I don't think we should really be pressing Hintz and Gurianov too hard for their play, given than guys who make More Money and have More Experience are playing like horseshit.

I think the Stars are lacking some actual physical professional guys. They seem like a bunch of goofballs who can't buckle down sometimes. Monty probably doesn't want to take away the goofball aspect because them having fun is a good thing for any organization. But they have to buckle down when the tough gets going.

Where's Hatcher? We need that.

Much of my gripe about them comes from the fact they have, so far, been Nill's only attempt to add offense to the roster since the season started. While it might not be fair to pin any hope on them this season, Nill called them up because they were scoring in the AHL with hoped they would help in the NHL. Nill was hoping he could help solve his goal scoring problem internally, and that has not happened. They do move around faster than the guys they replaced, and that has helped the team somewhat.

But we need goals. Nill, find us goals.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby ToddM » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:22 pm

I doubt even Ovechkin would score much in this Hitch 3.0 system.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby ScubaSteve » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:29 pm

Unfair to compare this system to Hitch, Monty's system is actually much better defensively.
Image Cody Monette likes this.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:47 pm

And Seguin is on pace for over 30 goals, so that means ovechkin would still least get 45.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby FrozenFailure » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:56 pm

Monty's system is better because he's forcing a huge amount of conservative defensive play, and when he allows them to open it up, we get absolutely ruined by a 2-1-2, which a lot of teams are running against us because our defense can't make a pass or handle quickly.

No one's going to score a lot until this defense gets better at transition. A little harder on the puck, a little more punishing in the corners. No one is scared of going into the corner with Klingberg or Heiskanen, and you can watch everyone shy away from a wall battle.

The team still needs at least one more productive forward and a Ryan Suter two-way guy. Clearly the price for an offensive guy is more than Nill wants to give up going forward, but he's going to catch so much horseshit for making our forward splashes two guys who barely produce and fail the eye test.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby slaps » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:20 pm

But his first-round picks are making such a huge roster impact. Why not protect his 1st-round pick this year at all costs?

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby ToddM » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:40 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:Unfair to compare this system to Hitch, Monty's system is actually much better defensively.


True. It's also leading almost all of our d-men to have career years, offensively, which was unlikely under Hitch.

For all ya'lls bellyaching, we actually do have a rookie who is scoring goals in the NHL at an insane pace. By a total coincidence, he is also the only one of our rookies who completely skipped our entire farm system.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby FrozenFailure » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:11 pm

slaps wrote:But his first-round picks are making such a huge roster impact. Why not protect his 1st-round pick this year at all costs?


So in five years we don't kvetch that he traded it for Ladislav Nagy.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby B Kat » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:26 pm

ToddM wrote:For all ya'lls bellyaching, we actually do have a rookie who is scoring goals in the NHL at an insane pace. By a total coincidence, he is also the only one of our rookies who completely skipped our entire farm system.

If Nill had messed that one up, even I'd bring out my pitchfork.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby SaintAngerBH » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:56 am

Thank God our development system didn't get their venomous claws on Heiskanen.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:32 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:Thank God our development system didn't get their venomous claws on Heiskanen.

Although, keep in mind it worked fine for Faksa and Lindell. Those guys spent a lot of time working their way up the system.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby BigAl » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:49 am

Yeah, but my experience is that theories work best when cherry picking facts instead of looking at the whole picture.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:05 am

BigAl wrote:Yeah, but my experience is that theories work best when cherry picking facts instead of looking at the whole picture.

It's a struggle I have with this team because there's no obvious pattern. You can look at most any season in this Nill era and find one or more young guys being handed significant roles, but there are also a couple of other young guys each year who eat scratches and struggle to earn even minor fill-in work. Is this a failure of development or nothing more than the usual way guys sink or swim with the opportunities they are handed? Are the guys who stepped up and took those jobs some sort of crazy outliers, or are the guys who can't find playing time nothing more than guys who were never going to be good enough?
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby BigAl » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:17 pm

I feel like there’s only so much development that can be done for guys who have already devoted their lives to playing hockey. Minor improvements can be made to technical skills, but the ones who don’t immediately go to the NHL have to have very strong work ethic and mental quickness to learn to play at a higher level.

Guys like Faksa and Lindell have pretty average skill levels, but they’re mentally sharp enough to always be in good position.

Honka struggles to make to make the lineup because his decision making and positioning are often flawed. He has tremendous technical skill, but it’s ineffective due to bad decisions.

I would argue that Miro isn’t much better than Honka skill-wise, but Miro is rarely out of position. And even when he makes mistakes, he’s able to quickly recover. He anticipates plays far better both on offense and defense.

I think the major problem is drafting. Mid first round draft picks frequently result in unremarkable players (not unlike Oleksiak) but when you completely whiff on guys like Glennie and Nichushkin then the unremarkableness of the remaining picks is magnified. In retrospect, Nichushkin was a terrible pick. It should have been a warning sign that his highlight reel was mostly breakaways which ended in goals scored without ever elevating the puck. His on ice vision is terrible, which is why he’s neither a scorer or playmaker. His razzle dazzle breakaways got mistaken for general hockey IQ.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:30 pm

Yeah, Nichushkin looked like Malkin when he was playing against smaller teenagers in the same way I look like Eric Lindros when playing against 12 year olds.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby BigAl » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:36 pm

We got hornswoggled by the razzamatazz.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby SaintAngerBH » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:41 pm

Troy McClure wrote:Yeah, Nichushkin looked like Malkin when he was playing against smaller teenagers in the same way I look like Eric Lindros when playing against 12 year olds.


You mean you let a 12 year old body check you with your head down in the middle of the ice?

Not a good look dude....
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:46 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:Yeah, Nichushkin looked like Malkin when he was playing against smaller teenagers in the same way I look like Eric Lindros when playing against 12 year olds.


You mean you let a 12 year old body check you with your head down in the middle of the ice?

Not a good look dude....

Scott Stevens, Jr. is why I'm posting on here and no longer lighting it up against kids.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby ToddM » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:28 pm

You might want to look at the rest of the draft board before declaring Val was a 'terrible pick in retrospect.' Remember, this guy was basically a "consensus top-three pick in any other draft year" in what was supposed to be a super-strong draft (results on that are mixed), and it's rare that guys like that "fall into your lap at #10."
Not taking Val there, and "reaching" for someone like, I dunno, Emile Poirier (taken #22, 8 games in NHL so far) would be like taking Gurianov over Barzal/Connor.

In retrospect, 2013 turned out to be a pretty weak draft, especially in the first and second rounds. Sure, there are a lot of players who scored marginally more points than Val has, but other than reclamation project Max Domi, do you see any world-beaters anywhere in the first two rounds after our pick?

https://www.hockey-reference.com/draft/ ... entry.html

Maybe Mantha? Theodore was a solid pick at #26 but not until he left his draft team. Burakovsky is Washington's Val. Wennberg was supposed to be the BJ's #1 center by now but has pretty much flamed out. Hartman is a solid role player. Dickinson is in there too.

In retrospect, it would've been stupid AF to look at the remaining picks and NOT select Val. You got a top-ten pick? Aim high! Swing for the fences!

I mean, seriously, look at that draft board after #11. Remember that Val missed three entire seasons due to injury and KHL. His stats pretty much measure up to anybody selected after him other than Guentzel (3rd round gem, #77).

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby SaintAngerBH » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:30 pm

Val has scored zero goals this year. By default, he is a bust.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby cdanew » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:44 pm

I hear you Todd - and don't necessarily disagree about the choice made back then. But in terms of absolute NHL production, other than his first year, Val has not been a good NHL player. Lots of reason why, etc. But he just isn't good. Maybe nobody else in his draft class is either, but that doesn't make Val good.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:47 pm

Max Domi would have been a better pick. There's no debate about it. Domi entered the league a better player and has been since. Even Domi's down years on dreadful Coyotes teams were better than Nichushkin's career season where he rode the coattails of Benn and Seguin to 34 points. At the time of the draft, Domi looked like a better player who was too short, which Nichushkin looked like better potential because he was so big. It turns out the good, short player has beat out the tall, lanky guy who never showed or found NHL hands.

This is especially true since Nichushkin ended up completely living up to every fear of the "Russian factor" causing teams ahead of the Stars to pass on him. I can't help but think the Stars did a poor job seeing this from him in the interview process. Other teams got it right, but the Stars thought they could change him, I guess.

I started skimming the long thread on the 2013 draft. Some fun stuff to review. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8965&hilit=draft
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby slaps » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:11 pm

The good part about the Nichushkin pick was that the Stars kind of went with the general draft rankings. That's good (for them). Unfortunately, it turned out poorly so they went back to just using a Ouija board in conjunction with the signs given by shaken-up rabbit bones in a top hat once worn by Aleister Crowley.

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby cdanew » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:48 pm

slaps wrote:The good part about the Nichushkin pick was that the Stars kind of went with the general draft rankings. That's good (for them). Unfortunately, it turned out poorly so they went back to just using a Ouija board in conjunction with the signs given by shaken-up rabbit bones in a top hat once worn by Aleister Crowley.


Troy got me looking at the 2013 draft thread. I enjoyed this post:
slaps wrote:starsinsideedge.com/2013/07/12/quotable-tom-gaglardi-on-offseason-moves-valeri-nichushkin-and-more/

The Stars didn't think Nichushkin would make it past #5 and tried to trade up to get him. For some reason, I like knowing that. I think I like knowing they were aggressive, but not stupidly so.


Can you imagine if the Stars had traded up to 5 for that pick? :S

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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby BigAl » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:53 pm

We should’ve traded down for a different bust who wouldn’t be costing us $2.7M right now.
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Re: GDT: 2/9 Stars @ Arizona 3 PM

Postby FrozenFailure » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:22 pm

2013 was kind of mediocre for everyone. Nichushkin's impact has been incredibly disappointing, but there's a lot of disappointment in the guys Nill has drafted.

I don't know what the real problem with their drafting is, but it's some combo of serious misses like Glennie, not having firsts with nothing to show for trading them, thin drafts, and trading the guys we do hit on in a desperate attempt to get ahead.

We should be rightfully pissed about 2014's complete disaster of a draft, 2015's lack of picks, and GMJN giving up guys who made it for business reasons. And somehow only managing to find a few impact players since Benn.

The GMJNs were able to shore up a few holes with decent trades, but it just means we're a revolving door of other team's scraps. Which, looking at the Jets, isn't a good way to run a team, or looking at Tampa, a great way to run a team.

Stupid getting business in my hockey.

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