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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:05 pm
by slaps
https://www.defendingbigd.com/2019/1/18 ... k-campbell

You’re not here for that, though. You are here to ask us, and yourself, one question: Why aren’t the Stars good? Well, okay, I’ll bite: it’s been as simple as “they don’t score goals” for two or three seasons now. Sure, great. But why don’t they score goals?

Okay, take a deep breath....

Because their system and personnel moves since the summer of 2016 have largely prioritized defensive responsibility (aside from Alex Radulov). Why does the team prioritize defense? Because the Stars organization was embarrassed after an historically bad penalty kill and a 2nd-worst goals against in 2016-17, so they decided to hire Ken Hitchcock, whom the team’s owner had always liked. Why did the team give up so many goals in 16-17? Because they suffered a rash of injuries to top players after the World Cup and their goaltending tandem was seriously flawed. Why wasn’t the goaltending fixed or at least bought out? Because the team had invested too heavily in Niemi one summer earlier after refusing to trade Julius Honka to acquire Cam Talbot, and because Joe Nieuwendyk had signed Kari Lehtonen to a massive extension before the partial lockout in 2012 that would have been really costly to buy out. Why weren’t the injuries insured against or Niemi avoided? Because the Stars haven’t had quality organizational depth due to woeful drafting for a decade, so they’ve either held onto prospects for too long because they don’t trust their system to develop good ones in the near-term, or else they’ve overpaid for stopgaps to fill lower-line roles you’d usually want young players taking. (Or in Niemi’s case, both.)

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:11 pm
by mookie1010
Gully 2.0.

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:14 pm
by slaps
The Stars basically wildly overreacted the loss to the Blues by going bigger, heavier, and slower, when the league was (and is) trending toward smaller and faster.

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:22 pm
by Troy McClure
ToddM wrote:He's also injured.

It doesn't matter. He's a terrible player whether he's healthy or injured. He sucked before going to Russia, he was bad in the KHL, and he sucks now. Some idiot GM will trade for him because every first round pick will get a second look from another team. Maybe he sticks around the NHL as a 4th line grinder for a few more years, but my guess is he's back in the KHL before he's 30.

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:48 pm
by B Kat
cdanew wrote:Man, I'm really getting tired of this *poo poo*.

Perhaps you should try cat avatars. :)

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:13 pm
by cdanew
B Kat wrote:
cdanew wrote:Man, I'm really getting tired of this *poo poo*.

Perhaps you should try cat avatars. :)


Maybe after the All Star break - crazy animals - dancing squirrels, dogs on skateboards, cats being a-holes ... ;)

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:20 pm
by mookie1010
B Kat wrote:
cdanew wrote:Man, I'm really getting tired of this *poo poo*.

Perhaps you should try cat avatars. :)

:comeon

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:32 pm
by SaintAngerBH
Troy McClure wrote:
ToddM wrote:He's also injured.

It doesn't matter. He's a terrible player whether he's healthy or injured. He sucked before going to Russia, he was bad in the KHL, and he sucks now. Some idiot GM will trade for him because every first round pick will get a second look from another team. Maybe he sticks around the NHL as a 4th line grinder for a few more years, but my guess is he's back in the KHL before he's 30.


Yes. He will go to Brunnstrom island. He'll get a second look from someone like Detroit and then be banished permanently.

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:11 pm
by ToddM
More likely, he'll go someplace like Pittsburgh for a conditional 5th, and turn into a regular 20-goal scorer.

He does all the right things. He skates great, turns on the jets, is easily one of our top three fastest guys, skates well in the corners with the puck, forechecks better than any non-Radulov Star. He just can't score.

And considering scoring is largely due to a mix of voodoo and luck, well (just ask Seguin)...

It's not like he's taking shifts off, or losing the puck in his skates like a doofus, or doing absolutely nothing with his limited minutes. He's actually doing everything BUT scoring really well, often at a high level. The goals will come, eventually. Unfortunately, they'll probably be for another team, as we AGAIN pull the trigger too fast on another 1st round pick.

I'll remind you that Jack Campbell, who took 4 years and about 4000 posts of *poo poo* from this board, is now leading the NHL in save percentage. Literally everyone else on this board thought that Campbell "sucked" and "had zero ability/talent." Turns out he just needed a decent coach and an opportunity. I think that's true of Val, too. He thrived as a rookie because Ruff took a chance on him and slotted him into the top line, which ruled for everyone involved. Then he got injured, came back, was bounced in both winger spots on all four lines, never found his footing, went to the KHL... etc etc etc.

The Stars (like literally every other team) have made some total 1st round bust picks, like Vagner, Glennie, and Vishnevskiy. Val's not even in the same class as those guys (for one, he's got 199 more NHL games than Glennie). Saying he "suks" is not fair to the player, who is doing pretty much everything his coach is telling him to do: win puck battles, be defensively responsible, skate below the dots in the defensive zone, begin the forecheck, etc etc. He's just not scoring. But nobody else is, either.

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:27 pm
by ScubaSteve
Would you like to defend the Richard Jackman pick too while you’re at it?

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:29 pm
by BigAl
Actually other players are scoring. If you look at their stats, in the G column there’s a number other than 0.

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:48 pm
by Troy McClure
ToddM wrote:More likely, he'll go someplace like Pittsburgh for a conditional 5th, and turn into a regular 20-goal scorer.

He does all the right things. He skates great, turns on the jets, is easily one of our top three fastest guys, skates well in the corners with the puck, forechecks better than any non-Radulov Star. He just can't score.

And considering scoring is largely due to a mix of voodoo and luck, well (just ask Seguin)...

It's not like he's taking shifts off, or losing the puck in his skates like a doofus, or doing absolutely nothing with his limited minutes. He's actually doing everything BUT scoring really well, often at a high level. The goals will come, eventually. Unfortunately, they'll probably be for another team, as we AGAIN pull the trigger too fast on another 1st round pick.

I'll remind you that Jack Campbell, who took 4 years and about 4000 posts of *poo poo* from this board, is now leading the NHL in save percentage. Literally everyone else on this board thought that Campbell "sucked" and "had zero ability/talent." Turns out he just needed a decent coach and an opportunity. I think that's true of Val, too. He thrived as a rookie because Ruff took a chance on him and slotted him into the top line, which ruled for everyone involved. Then he got injured, came back, was bounced in both winger spots on all four lines, never found his footing, went to the KHL... etc etc etc.

The Stars (like literally every other team) have made some total 1st round bust picks, like Vagner, Glennie, and Vishnevskiy. Val's not even in the same class as those guys (for one, he's got 199 more NHL games than Glennie). Saying he "suks" is not fair to the player, who is doing pretty much everything his coach is telling him to do: win puck battles, be defensively responsible, skate below the dots in the defensive zone, begin the forecheck, etc etc. He's just not scoring. But nobody else is, either.

No, he sucks. If he was signed off the street the same way Pitlick was, you wouldn’t be giving him this treatment where you praise him for being a somewhat faster Blake Comeau who provides less offense.

But you can’t view him like a stranger because of where he was drafted and because of his mythical 34 point rookie season where he played alongside two great players and still put up unimpressive numbers. The thought that he could become a regular 20 goal scorer is nothing short of crazy. He can’t score because he sucls. He can’t score in the NHL or the KHL. The only time he scored with any regularity was when he was a big kid playing against other smaller and slower kids, but his terrible shot and his one and only one offensive move simply doesn’t work in the NHL... or KHL...

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:14 pm
by SaintAngerBH
I don't get the shot thing. The shot can be taught. I was a horrific skater but my coach in high school taught me how to shoot well and I actually started scoring because of it.

Can't you teach people to shoot better?!?! Has anyone tried to show Val HOW to shoot?

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:03 pm
by ToddM
Nothing I say will ever convince you that Val doesn't suck, so if he goes to the Pens or Sharks or something and starts putting up 18-20 goals a season, you owe me a beer.

Better clear that checkbook, playa....

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:04 pm
by One_Timer
SaintAngerBH wrote:I don't get the shot thing. The shot can be taught. I was a horrific skater but my coach in high school taught me how to shoot well and I actually started scoring because of it.

Can't you teach people to shoot better?!?! Has anyone tried to show Val HOW to shoot?


If he can’t shoot by this point in his career he’s got much bigger problems. Total lack of hockey sense maybe? He plays like a robot.

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:45 pm
by wonko80
In Mother Russia, puck shoot you.

Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:47 pm
by Troy McClure
ToddM wrote:Nothing I say will ever convince you that Val doesn't suck, so if he goes to the Pens or Sharks or something and starts putting up 18-20 goals a season, you owe me a beer.

Better clear that checkbook, playa....

You are correct. Nothing will convince me a $3 millionn zero goal forward is any good.