GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

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ToddM
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby ToddM » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:12 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:The entire offense has devolved into throwing the puck into the crease hoping to get a bounce.


Can someone who watches other teams tell me if that’s how the whole league is now? Or is it just us? I don’t really follow hockey that much, but I get the distinct impression that the league has devolved into doing whatever the analytics say has the highest success rate (i.e. dump and chase, fling it at the net and hope for a rebound, etc), and there’s very little creativity or finesse left in the game. Makes teams and games more competitive, but less fun to watch.


Analytics says you should NEVER dump and chase or launch low-percentage shots. But coaches do it anyways, because it's an acceptable turnover, like punting on 4th-and-1, instead of an unacceptable turnover, like Honka pushing up and having a pass go off his skate causing an odd man rush.

Monty talked a big game this summer about possession and swarming the puck and letting skaters skate, but the results pretty much put him in Hitchcock 2.0 (3.0?) territory.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby One_Timer » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:17 pm

Somewhere Joe Nieuwendyk is laughing his ass off.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby ToddM » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:24 pm

He's probably at Kinko's getting his resume ready.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby One_Timer » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:26 pm

His AHL coach and first round pick just beat this team.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby ToddM » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:29 pm

I only caught the first period and change, but I didn't see Campbell really tested at all. Did he actually get to face some quality scoring chances?

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby One_Timer » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:32 pm

He outplayed Bishop, for sure.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:36 pm

The loudest cheer of the night was for Luka.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby BigAl » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:54 pm

I officially hate Comeau now. I’m so tired of watching him skate into the zone, do his little button hook move, and then not make any kind effective play. It’s just a huge momentum killer.
He, and almost everyone else, needs to stop trying to be playmakers and just drive hard to the net.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby SaintAngerBH » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:02 am

I wonder if Nill is still fine with our "secondary scoring."
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby Troy McClure » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:49 am

ScubaSteve wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:The entire offense has devolved into throwing the puck into the crease hoping to get a bounce.


Can someone who watches other teams tell me if that’s how the whole league is now? Or is it just us? I don’t really follow hockey that much, but I get the distinct impression that the league has devolved into doing whatever the analytics say has the highest success rate (i.e. dump and chase, fling it at the net and hope for a rebound, etc), and there’s very little creativity or finesse left in the game. Makes teams and games more competitive, but less fun to watch.

The easy answer is yes. The game today is far less creative thanks to a bunch of factors:
- more speed up and down most rosters means, no matter who your best line goes up against, those opponents can skate far better than the depth guys of years past
- most every team stressing hard backchecking, shot blocking, and safe play
- the speed element also means every guy with the puck is being rushed and pressured - the time to dangle and look for passes is lower than ever - it also means guys are more often looking for the quick and easy pass to advance the puck up the ice and no longer make use of the width of the rink the same way they used to - Gretzky’s curl inside the blue line wouldn’t work in this age
- advanced and video scouting - every team knows your strengths and weaknesses
- goalies are actually good - they are so much better at trapping pucks or directing rebounds that you don’t get near as many chaotic rebounds leading to second scoring chances - a save usually ends up in the gear or directed into the corner instead of into the slot
- San Dimas High School Football Rules
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby Troy McClure » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:25 am

And this is normal.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby ToddM » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:51 am

BigAl wrote:I officially hate Comeau now. I’m so tired of watching him skate into the zone, do his little button hook move, and then not make any kind effective play. It’s just a huge momentum killer.
He, and almost everyone else, needs to stop trying to be playmakers and just drive hard to the net.


He's been a black hole on offense since the first period of game 1. At least guys like Janmark, Val, Shore, Dickinson, etc will drive the net and make a move, even if they miss. Comeau dipsy doodles, curls around, comes to a full stop when he has a step on the D... basically everything he can do avoid skating near the net.

And he's fifth in ice time amongst Stars forwards.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby SaintAngerBH » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:54 am

Troy McClure wrote:And this is normal.



Radulov admitted in an interview that he has problems with that sometimes and that Monty made the right call.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby mookie1010 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:12 am

wonko80 wrote:I guess so. But three systems in three years has resulted in shitty offense. So is it the system?

I suppose an argument can be made for either, but this season it looks to my eyes that we have three very talented players (Rads, Benn, and Seguin) who look to either be lost positionally most of the time, or floating independently. To me that says it's a system not maximizing their talents.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby wonko80 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:21 am

ToddM wrote:He's been a black hole on offense since the first period of game 1. At least guys like Janmark, Val, Shore, Dickinson, etc will drive the net and make a move, even if they miss. Comeau dipsy doodles, curls around, comes to a full stop when he has a step on the D... basically everything he can do avoid skating near the net.

I'm not defending Comeau here because the same thing Al noticed has been bugging me for weeks. However, none of those players drive the net. Or if they do, they never get a shot off. So the net offense out of every player mentioned in your post is jack *poo poo*, meaning we just admitted that 42% of the forwards suck at creating offense. And we all know the percentage is actually higher.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby ToddM » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:27 am

All those guys drive the net, they just don't score.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby B Kat » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:30 am

They can play like they did against TB or in the third period and I’d bet they would be be better. Sorry it’s so taxing, but that’s how it goes.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby mookie1010 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:34 am

mookie1010 wrote:
wonko80 wrote:I guess so. But three systems in three years has resulted in shitty offense. So is it the system?

I suppose an argument can be made for either, but this season it looks to my eyes that we have three very talented players (Rads, Benn, and Seguin) who look to either be lost positionally most of the time, or floating independently. To me that says it's a system not maximizing their talents.

Also, I'm not defending the players or drafting or anything like that - this roster does suck, no question. I just think that this looks like a poorly coached team with no identity or direction. That's 100% on the coaches, I think. Good coaches and systems get the most out of their rosters. That ain't happening here.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby cdanew » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:43 am

Man, I'm really getting tired of this *poo poo*. The reason I had all the laughing emojis in the post about Campbell wasn't about him - it was because I absolutely expected that he would make the Stars look like the shitty offensive team they are. And he did. I turned it off after the 2nd LA goal, which was a bad one for Bishop to give up. Makes you wonder why the Stars can't get even a fluky goal like that against all of these bottom dweller teams they have been playing (Tampa excepted). Because they almost never have anyone near the net!

:DeadHorse: :DeadHorse: :S :DeadHorse: :DeadHorse:

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby Troy McClure » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:47 am

ToddM wrote:All those guys drive the net, they just don't score.

Then who cares? Driving the net and doing nothing with it is no more useful than Comeau stopping on the wall and turning it over.

But I disagree that Janmark drives the net. He did in the past, but this season, he's mostly going wide and looking for passes. He's rattled. Last night, he twice had the puck in the offensive zone and steered wide instead of going to the net for a shot.

Val's shuffleboard hockey doesn't count as driving anything.

Shore is gone.

Dickinson... sure. Of the four guys you listed, he might actually count.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby Troy McClure » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:52 am

mookie1010 wrote:Also, I'm not defending the players or drafting or anything like that - this roster does suck, no question. I just think that this looks like a poorly coached team with no identity or direction. That's 100% on the coaches, I think. Good coaches and systems get the most out of their rosters. That ain't happening here.

I'm with you there. I don't think any coach can make this team a top third offense. There just isn't the talent. But a better coach should have the Stars in the middle of the pack.

Monty seems to be in over his head. Doesn't mean he won't be a good coach at some point, but it kind of sucks having the Stars be his training ground. Watching his post game talks is depressing because you see a guy floundering with no idea what to do.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby mookie1010 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:59 am

Also, half these guys are on their third coach in three years, with a third system, which can have an impact on this team as well as the AHLers....That's a consequence of the coaching turnover.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby wonko80 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:08 am

Troy McClure wrote:
ToddM wrote:All those guys drive the net, they just don't score.

Then who cares? Driving the net and doing nothing with it is no more useful than Comeau stopping on the wall and turning it over.

But I disagree that Janmark drives the net. He did in the past, but this season, he's mostly going wide and looking for passes. He's rattled. Last night, he twice had the puck in the offensive zone and steered wide instead of going to the net for a shot.

Val's shuffleboard hockey doesn't count as driving anything.

Shore is gone.

Dickinson... sure. Of the four guys you listed, he might actually count.

Those are my thoughts as well.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby ScubaSteve » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:33 am

Hey, Val almost got into the lineup last night which is practically the same as almost scoring a goal, which shows how much he has improved this season.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby SaintAngerBH » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:57 am

mookie1010 wrote:Also, half these guys are on their third coach in three years, with a third system, which can have an impact on this team as well as the AHLers....That's a consequence of the coaching turnover.


Wouldn't that also implicate the players more than the coaching?
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby SaintAngerBH » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:58 am

ScubaSteve wrote:Hey, Val almost got into the lineup last night which is practically the same as almost scoring a goal, which shows how much he has improved this season.


He is also very good at defense.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby wonko80 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:17 pm

He's so good at defense that the Kings didn't even register a shot when he was on the ice last night.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby ToddM » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:30 pm

He's also injured.

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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby mookie1010 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:34 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:
mookie1010 wrote:Also, half these guys are on their third coach in three years, with a third system, which can have an impact on this team as well as the AHLers....That's a consequence of the coaching turnover.


Wouldn't that also implicate the players more than the coaching?

I guess I just see it as a bad thing for the team, their development and their identity to have to start each season szn with a new voice, vision, and system. Again, not alibi-ing for the team, most of them aren't that great.
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Re: GDT: 1/17/19 Stars v Kings

Postby SaintAngerBH » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:00 pm

True. No argument against your points either. I'm not terribly impressed by Monty and totally disagree with the idiots on other websites who have literally claimed that he is the best thing to happen to this franchise in decades. I don't know what world they live in....
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