2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

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ScubaSteve
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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu May 30, 2019 9:41 am

And Val might score a goal next year!
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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu May 30, 2019 10:04 am

So many Stars fans are going to flip out when Spezza isn't re-signed. It's crazy. Sure, he's a nice guy, but that doesn't help you much on the ice.

Also, Shapiro floated the idea of trading for Kessel. He said Faksa + futures. Again, so many Stars fans would lose their *poo poo* over trading a bottom-6 forward. That would be glorious.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu May 30, 2019 10:06 am

I’m the biggest Spezza apologist around, and even I admit it’s time to move on.
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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu May 30, 2019 10:13 am

I like Faksa, but if he can land you someone on the second line, then do it. That could push Dickinson down to the 3rd line where I think he fits better. I'm still not really sold on him being a 2nd line player.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu May 30, 2019 10:14 am

Is there a fat UFA center available to line up between Kessel and Robertson?

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu May 30, 2019 10:36 am

wonko80 wrote:I like Faksa, but if he can land you someone on the second line, then do it. That could push Dickinson down to the 3rd line where I think he fits better. I'm still not really sold on him being a 2nd line player.

Faksa is a nice contributor, but he seems to have a serious cap on his offensive ability. And I agree about Dickinson. He can take over that 3rd line center role just fine (assuming he can stay healthy), but I'm not buying into him as a second line winger. Even though Dickinson looked better late in the season, he still didn't contribute much offense at all down the stretch or in the playoffs.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Thu May 30, 2019 10:50 am

ScubaSteve wrote:And Val might score a goal next year!

Such the optimist!

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu May 30, 2019 10:53 am

Troy McClure wrote:
wonko80 wrote:I like Faksa, but if he can land you someone on the second line, then do it. That could push Dickinson down to the 3rd line where I think he fits better. I'm still not really sold on him being a 2nd line player.

Faksa is a nice contributor, but he seems to have a serious cap on his offensive ability. And I agree about Dickinson. He can take over that 3rd line center role just fine (assuming he can stay healthy), but I'm not buying into him as a second line winger. Even though Dickinson looked better late in the season, he still didn't contribute much offense at all down the stretch or in the playoffs.


Shapiro's theory is that Dickinson and Faksa both serve largely the same role. Dickinson may have a bit more offensive upside, Faksa is better defensively. Faksa probably has more trade value, and Dickinson would be a 90% as efficient replacement.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu May 30, 2019 10:55 am

I wouldn't trade Faksa, because he brings a lot more to the table than 15 goals and 30 points. He makes his linemates and defensive pairs significantly better, for one. Greg Patreyn and Roman Polak should send Faksa half their paychecks in gratitude. He scores at a decent rate for someone who gets zero PP time, starts almost every shift in his own zone, and while playing exclusively against the Connor McDavids of the league. I'm old enough to remember the pre-Faksa days, when top lines like Zetterberg/Datsuyk toyed with our checking line and seemingly scored at will. Now those same guys spend their shifts in their own zone, trying to pry the puck from Faksa behind their own net. There's a LOT of value in that.

I don't think Dickinson is at that same level. He did well in the playoffs (5 points in 13 games, with zero PP time), but that's still only about a 35-40 point pace, even if a lot of those goals were "clutch."

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Thu May 30, 2019 10:56 am

Faksa has one more year on a nice cap hit contract. Let's see if there is emergence from either Dicky or some other player before trading away a very important piece of the team. After next season, and I expect a big one from Faksa given it's an important contract year, we'll see where he is and any replacement player for him.

While I think Kessel is largely awesome, so is his cap hit, 6.8 mil thru 2022. Maybe.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Thu May 30, 2019 11:52 am

ToddM wrote:Is there a fat UFA center available to line up between Kessel and Robertson?


Image

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu May 30, 2019 12:16 pm

ToddM wrote:I wouldn't trade Faksa, because he brings a lot more to the table than 15 goals and 30 points. He makes his linemates and defensive pairs significantly better, for one. Greg Patreyn and Roman Polak should send Faksa half their paychecks in gratitude. He scores at a decent rate for someone who gets zero PP time, starts almost every shift in his own zone, and while playing exclusively against the Connor McDavids of the league. I'm old enough to remember the pre-Faksa days, when top lines like Zetterberg/Datsuyk toyed with our checking line and seemingly scored at will. Now those same guys spend their shifts in their own zone, trying to pry the puck from Faksa behind their own net. There's a LOT of value in that.

I don't think Dickinson is at that same level. He did well in the playoffs (5 points in 13 games, with zero PP time), but that's still only about a 35-40 point pace, even if a lot of those goals were "clutch."


The tradeoff for a legit top-6 winger would probably be better in the long run. Not like a Fearland, but Kessel - he's pretty awesome.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu May 30, 2019 12:31 pm

Well, apparently Kessel will only accept a trade to... Arizona? WTF?

https://triblive.com/sports/jeremy-roen ... -one-team/

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu May 30, 2019 12:32 pm

Tkachuk must have had a successful arby-tration hearing.
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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu May 30, 2019 12:47 pm

More like Tkachunk, amirite?

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu May 30, 2019 12:48 pm

slaps wrote:
ToddM wrote:I wouldn't trade Faksa, because he brings a lot more to the table than 15 goals and 30 points. He makes his linemates and defensive pairs significantly better, for one. Greg Patreyn and Roman Polak should send Faksa half their paychecks in gratitude. He scores at a decent rate for someone who gets zero PP time, starts almost every shift in his own zone, and while playing exclusively against the Connor McDavids of the league. I'm old enough to remember the pre-Faksa days, when top lines like Zetterberg/Datsuyk toyed with our checking line and seemingly scored at will. Now those same guys spend their shifts in their own zone, trying to pry the puck from Faksa behind their own net. There's a LOT of value in that.

I don't think Dickinson is at that same level. He did well in the playoffs (5 points in 13 games, with zero PP time), but that's still only about a 35-40 point pace, even if a lot of those goals were "clutch."


The tradeoff for a legit top-6 winger would probably be better in the long run. Not like a Fearland, but Kessel - he's pretty awesome.

It comes down to needing to give something to get something, and the Stars aren't exactly loaded up with redundancy except at two positions: (1) Young checking line center where Faksa and Dickinson are close enough in ability where the downgrade from Faksa to Dickinson would probably be offset by the upgrade on the second line of Mystery Winger X over Dickinson and (2) Klingberg and Heiskanen, where we know we don't want to trade either of them after watching this franchise spend the past decade fumbling through young d-men without success.
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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Thu May 30, 2019 1:01 pm

ToddM wrote:More like Tkachunk, amirite?

I call his sons, Tkachukito.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu May 30, 2019 1:50 pm

In general, third line checking centers are much easier to find than top-6 scoring wingers. We've had a lot of them here... guys you can pick up off the scrapheap, like Stu Barnes, or younger prospects who have hit their scoring ceiling.

But Faksa is a special case. He isn't a Blake Comeau-type journeyman who can skate around and kill penalties. He fills that checking center role like a Golden God. The main reason we give up so few goals is Bishop, but a distant second is Faksa's ability to dominate the top scorers in the NHL, keeping the puck deep in their zone for 30-40 seconds, even on the penalty kill.

I kinda look at him like a Russell Maryland... not that many tackles and almost no sacks, but his dominance in the center anchors the defense and makes life easier for the Aikmans and Irvins. And I just don't think you can capture that value coming back in a trade.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 30, 2019 5:15 pm

Is he really though?

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu May 30, 2019 5:51 pm

No.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Thu May 30, 2019 9:58 pm

Thank you for coming clean with me.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu May 30, 2019 10:46 pm

Was he riding dirty?

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Fri May 31, 2019 10:45 am

So Kessel straight-up rejected a trade to the Wild. While I'd love to have him here, I doubt his style of play (which is to say, great on creating offense and horrible on defense) would jibe well with Monty, and he'd probably end up on Spezza Island by mid-December.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Fri May 31, 2019 11:56 am

He’s better than Spezza though but I’d prefer to just sign zuccarello.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Fri May 31, 2019 12:24 pm

ToddM wrote:So Kessel straight-up rejected a trade to the Wild. While I'd love to have him here, I doubt his style of play (which is to say, great on creating offense and horrible on defense) would jibe well with Monty, and he'd probably end up on Spezza Island by mid-December.

Monty isn't why Spezza ended up on Spezza Island. If Spezza had still been great at creating offense, he wouldn't have been slotted into the "bare minimum" kind of role.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Fri May 31, 2019 12:41 pm

I like how Todd blames Montgomery for the defensive style instead of Nill for buying players who aren't capable of playing any other style.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Fri May 31, 2019 12:55 pm

Those players filled the net with pucks under different coaches. Then, suddenly, they stopped under this one. Correlation = causation.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Fri May 31, 2019 1:41 pm

Spezza's decline wasn't just last season. He got slower, he was never quick to begin with and the game got faster too.

I've had a theory about Spezza and Monty, maybe there was a little conflict, nothing overt, but Spezza is a teacher, a hockey mind and some say he will be a GM one day. Maybe that clashed a bit with a new NHL head coach trying to establish himself. And also, that Monty is fairly young.

Anyway, we don't have Spezza anymore.

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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Fri May 31, 2019 1:41 pm

Monty isn't the reason Spezza turned 35.
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Re: 2019 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Fri May 31, 2019 1:53 pm

And Monty tried for a while to play an offensive, up-tempo game. Turns out that most of the players he owns aren't good at that.

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