2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

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BigAl
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby BigAl » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:06 pm

I think his point production is pretty solid for a 29 year old, but he never looks like a threatening player. He can’t slice through defenses any more and his play isn’t especially physical. Here’s something you never hear about Benn in this years broadcasts — “he drove hard towards the net.” Occasionally you might hear that about Radulov but rarely about Benn (or Seguin or anybody else).
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:33 pm

I think his overall positive impact on a game has declined dramatically. He's not as scary to opponents in transition because he's not as fast. He's no longer sniping goals from distance. He's not near as physical, so he's more often going for the cute pass than trying to bowl people over to take it to the net.

But he is still good at scoring goals around the net and can be useful on the PP.

Sadly, he's not going to live up to his contract. He's no longer going to have several shifts a game where he is terrorizing opponents in the offensive zone.

That all doesn't mean he sucks or should be tossed aside. The truth is even if his future game is the PP guy and garbage goal collector, he's still going to be more useful scoring goals for the Stars than the pile of low quality magic beans they'd get if they tried to offload his massive contract.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby atticus ross » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:56 pm

Benn's my favorite player and I know he's been trending downwards since his Art Vandross season. Whatever is going on with Benn, he's been very disappointing this season because we know what he's capable of. I've wanted to find some reason to defend his play but I got nothing.

That said, even as disappointing as his play has been he is still putting up more offence than most on this offensively riddled team. But I had hoped he would have bounced back and responded in the same manner as Seguin did. It's frustrating to watch... this team is frustrating to watch and I've lost a lot of interest and faith in this team and front office.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:23 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:I'm legitimately curious here. There seems to be a hard split between people against Benn and people saying Benn really hasn't been that bad when you consider his stats. I think he is on a 30 goal pace or so.

Where does everyone fall here? To me, he looks awful and continues to look worse as time goes on.


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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:52 am

"I can't wait to dump this guy who scores 35 goals even when he sucks." --Half of all Stars fans right now

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:55 am

Benn now is the Benn who fits exactly with what Scuba likes to snipe at him about - floating around, not someone the other teams have to focus too terribly much on, leeching off of other player's efforts. What the Stars are paying for is the Benn who, back in the day, took a faceoff, just *fargin'* ran over the other guy, went straight to the net and buried the puck.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:56 am

Troy McClure wrote:Monty’s an open book with the media, and it makes him a sympathetic guy. But maybe don’t go to the mic, throw your hands up, and say you can’t coach these guys when you’re only half a seaosn into your NHL coaching career.


This isn't a new thing just for Montgomery. This is an organization wide issue - Montgomery is just the first one to openly put it out there.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:56 am

He needs to lose weight and shape up. He’s only 29, with access to the best trainers, equipment and nutrition experts, that shouldn’t be too difficult.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:59 am

Statistically, he's about on the right part of the down curve for players that play his style. That's why players are getting the big money deals earlier and earlier.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:13 am

ToddM wrote:"I can't wait to dump this guy who scores 35 goals even when he sucks." --Half of all Stars fans right now


Yeah, but doesn't it matter that the majority of those goals are Jason Arnott goals?
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:19 am

slaps wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:Monty’s an open book with the media, and it makes him a sympathetic guy. But maybe don’t go to the mic, throw your hands up, and say you can’t coach these guys when you’re only half a seaosn into your NHL coaching career.


This isn't a new thing just for Montgomery. This is an organization wide issue - Montgomery is just the first one to openly put it out there.

I was bringing it up more to say it was an odd thing for a coach to do so early on into his tenure in terms of thinking about a guy who wants a long career coaching in the NHL. I mean, as quickly as coaches are turned over, maybe don't broadcast to the league that you're out of ideas only halfway into your first season.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:26 am

Yeah, the optics on that weren't stellar.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:30 am

Troy McClure wrote:I was bringing it up more to say it was an odd thing for a coach to do so early on into his tenure in terms of thinking about a guy who wants a long career coaching in the NHL. I mean, as quickly as coaches are turned over, maybe don't broadcast to the league that you're out of ideas only halfway into your first season.

I wonder if he was more trying to hint that at some point it's just the players who aren't executing no matter what he tries.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:32 am

ToddM wrote:"I can't wait to dump this guy who scores 35 goals even when he sucks." --Half of all Stars fans right now

Please tell me who is saying this: "I'm so glad we're paying Benn the highest salary in the entire league this season and next season."

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Jason » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:55 am


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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:08 am

I totally agree with that. Him winning it in the lowest scoring year in forever made him look way more elite that he really was. And I realize he was very, very good.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:25 am

wonko80 wrote:
ToddM wrote:"I can't wait to dump this guy who scores 35 goals even when he sucks." --Half of all Stars fans right now

Please tell me who is saying this: "I'm so glad we're paying Benn the highest salary in the entire league this season and next season."


I don't know why people are saying that, because it's factually not true. He's actually fourth (still very high), behind Tavares (worth it), McDavid (duh), and Carey Price (nope). Toews (nope), Kane (yep), Kopitar (nah, dawg), and Carlsson in Wash (probably?) are just a million under Benn. And of all those guys, only McDavid is significantly younger than Benn.

It's not a great contract (if you want an insane contract, look at Klingberg or Kucherov). But the way hockey go, by the end of its term it probably' won't even crack the top 20, for a guy who can sleepwalk into 35 goals and 70 points. That's 35 goals for a team with serious goal-scoring issues, too, mind you.

So if you want to pull a Herschel Walker trade and get a king's ransom of picks for him, right after his Art Ross season, well... just remember that the Cowboys were 1-15 when they traded Herschel, and they took advantage of a really, really stupid Minnesota front office in a way that no one ever will again. Had the Boys been 8-8, Herschel would've stayed a Cowboy.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:28 am

Jason wrote:

So perfectly awesome with Tyler Seguin being scratched for the game because he showed up late for practice the day before.



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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:31 am

ToddM wrote:
wonko80 wrote:
ToddM wrote:"I can't wait to dump this guy who scores 35 goals even when he sucks." --Half of all Stars fans right now

Please tell me who is saying this: "I'm so glad we're paying Benn the highest salary in the entire league this season and next season."


I don't know why people are saying that, because it's factually not true. He's actually fourth (still very high), behind Tavares (worth it), McDavid (duh), and Carey Price (nope). Toews (nope), Kane (yep), Kopitar (nah, dawg), and Carlsson in Wash (probably?) are just a million under Benn. And of all those guys, only McDavid is significantly younger than Benn.

His cap hit is lower. His actual salary is the highest in the league at $13 million this season and next.
ToddM wrote:It's not a great contract (if you want an insane contract, look at Klingberg or Kucherov). But the way hockey go, by the end of its term it probably' won't even crack the top 20, for a guy who can sleepwalk into 35 goals and 70 points. That's 35 goals for a team with serious goal-scoring issues, too, mind you.

So if you want to pull a Herschel Walker trade and get a king's ransom of picks for him, right after his Art Ross season, well... just remember that the Cowboys were 1-15 when they traded Herschel, and they took advantage of a really, really stupid Minnesota front office in a way that no one ever will again. Had the Boys been 8-8, Herschel would've stayed a Cowboy.

You're right. We were better off to hang on to him. Just look at all those playoff victories and Stanley Cups we won with him "sleepwalking" his way to 35 goals and 70 points.

If you're arguing in the other thread that despite Tampa's great drafting and trades and making the playoffs, that it doesn't really matter since they haven't won the Cup, then why defend hanging onto Benn?
Last edited by wonko80 on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:32 am

ToddM wrote:
wonko80 wrote:
ToddM wrote:"I can't wait to dump this guy who scores 35 goals even when he sucks." --Half of all Stars fans right now

Please tell me who is saying this: "I'm so glad we're paying Benn the highest salary in the entire league this season and next season."


I don't know why people are saying that, because it's factually not true. He's actually fourth (still very high), behind Tavares (worth it), McDavid (duh), and Carey Price (nope). Toews (nope), Kane (yep), Kopitar (nah, dawg), and Carlsson in Wash (probably?) are just a million under Benn. And of all those guys, only McDavid is significantly younger than Benn.

It's not a great contract (if you want an insane contract, look at Klingberg or Kucherov). But the way hockey go, by the end of its term it probably' won't even crack the top 20, for a guy who can sleepwalk into 35 goals and 70 points. That's 35 goals for a team with serious goal-scoring issues, too, mind you.

So if you want to pull a Herschel Walker trade and get a king's ransom of picks for him, right after his Art Ross season, well... just remember that the Cowboys were 1-15 when they traded Herschel, and they took advantage of a really, really stupid Minnesota front office in a way that no one ever will again. Had the Boys been 8-8, Herschel would've stayed a Cowboy.


The point still stands though. We are paying him to be an elite player when he isn't even close.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:57 am

wonko80 wrote:You're right. We were better off to hang on to him. Just look at all those playoff victories and Stanley Cups we won with him "sleepwalking" his way to 35 goals and 70 points.

If you're arguing in the other thread that despite Tampa's great drafting and trades and making the playoffs, that it doesn't really matter since they haven't won the Cup, then why defend hanging onto Benn?


I'm not saying it doesn't matter: I'm saying it's *weird*. That you can do everything right, on a level no one else even comes close to, have absolutely zero weaknesses on the roster, pay your Kucherovs and Hedmans just north of what Comeau is making, and still not come away with the Cup.


As far as Benn, we have this discussion every couple of years. A Star has a good season, followed by a not-great but still pretty productive season. Fans dump on him, wringing their hands at our lack of retrospective genius: "why didn't we trade him when he was amazing!?1?! WE WERE SUCH FOOLS!!!"
So ask yourself this. Should Tampa trade Kucherov this summer, for picks and prospects? He'd bring an insane return. His next contract is guaranteed to be north of the $5.5 he's making now. And he will probably never put up 2.5 points/game over the rest of his career, like he has been since the beginning of December. Perfect time to dump him, right? Especially if they don't win the Cup this year?
By yawl's logic, Tampa would be a drooling pack of morons not to trade Kucherov asap. Think of all the picks they could get for him! Some of them might even turn out to be as good as Kucherov in his prime!

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:07 am

You can't compare the state of Tampa to that of Dallas even when the Stars signed Benn to the extension. The Stars were banking on creating a core of good players, but that was it. Tampa already has the core and is awesome and they've also had playoff success.

So if Kucherov was one of two good players Tampa had and they hadn't made the playoffs in years, then yes, maybe they should look to trade him for a king's ransom. But since they're sitting on an amazing roster in a window to win Cups, no, they shouldn't.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:07 am

I would not be surprised if Tampa does deal Kucherov if they can't get a contract they feel is reasonable.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:20 am

wonko80 wrote:You can't compare the state of Tampa to that of Dallas even when the Stars signed Benn to the extension. The Stars were banking on creating a core of good players, but that was it. Tampa already has the core and is awesome and they've also had playoff success.

So if Kucherov was one of two good players Tampa had and they hadn't made the playoffs in years, then yes, maybe they should look to trade him for a king's ransom. But since they're sitting on an amazing roster in a window to win Cups, no, they shouldn't.


Should the Oilers trade McDavid, then?

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:25 am

Really? You want to compare Benn to McDavid?

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:42 am

wonko80 wrote:Really? You want to compare Benn to McDavid?

In addition, July 18th, 2015 was Captain Fantastic's 26th birthday while yesterday was McDavid's 22nd.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:41 pm

wonko80 wrote:Really? You want to compare Benn to McDavid?


Both teams are mired in mediocrity and have/had an elite player in his prime.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:45 pm

In no case was Benn ever even close to McDavid's level, even in his prime.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:00 pm

slaps wrote:In no case was Benn ever even close to McDavid's level, even in his prime.


Never said that. I'm comparing the Oilers and Stars.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby BigAl » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:18 pm

wut
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