2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

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cdanew
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:00 pm

slaps wrote:
cdanew wrote:Part of the frustration with not putting teams away was illustrated last night. Haven't checked the stats, but it seems like the Stars have a hard time scoring with the opposing goalie pulled. A few years ago under Ruff, I think they led the league in empty netters. Now, they can't score with 3 minutes of an open net.


Maybe I'm just looking for flaws, but it seems like the Stars have a terrible time transitioning out of their zone. Teams seem to keep them pinned in almost at will, but then the Stars have a lot of trouble with sustained pressure in the other team's zone.


Not just you - I've noticed the same thing.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:24 pm

slaps wrote:
cdanew wrote:Part of the frustration with not putting teams away was illustrated last night. Haven't checked the stats, but it seems like the Stars have a hard time scoring with the opposing goalie pulled. A few years ago under Ruff, I think they led the league in empty netters. Now, they can't score with 3 minutes of an open net.


Maybe I'm just looking for flaws, but it seems like the Stars have a terrible time transitioning out of their zone. Teams seem to keep them pinned in almost at will, but then the Stars have a lot of trouble with sustained pressure in the other team's zone.


Polak's only fourth in ice time because his shifts in his own zone go on for 90-120 seconds.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:35 pm

cdanew wrote:Part of the frustration with not putting teams away was illustrated last night. Haven't checked the stats, but it seems like the Stars have a hard time scoring with the opposing goalie pulled. A few years ago under Ruff, I think they led the league in empty netters. Now, they can't score with 3 minutes of an open net.


Ok, had a second and looked it up. Per: https://morehockeystats.com/teams, the Stars have scored 1 empty net goal this year, and allowed 12 (so there is the problem with their goal differential). Only team that has allowed more empty netters is LA.

9 other teams have also only scored 1 empty netter, and 6 have scored zero (but those include Tampa and Pittsburgh, so maybe they don't have many opportunities). The most scored is 5, by the Panthers. So maybe I'm being a bit harsh on the scoring of empty netters, but man they sure give up a lot of them.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:42 pm

I guess that might mean their losses are generally close to where it is worth pulling the goalie. If they were getting blown out then they'd probably have less empty netters against. So that's good?

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:43 pm

Are there stats skewed by the fact that we are pulling the goalie with 5:30 left half the time?
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:44 pm

ToddM wrote:
slaps wrote:
cdanew wrote:Part of the frustration with not putting teams away was illustrated last night. Haven't checked the stats, but it seems like the Stars have a hard time scoring with the opposing goalie pulled. A few years ago under Ruff, I think they led the league in empty netters. Now, they can't score with 3 minutes of an open net.


Maybe I'm just looking for flaws, but it seems like the Stars have a terrible time transitioning out of their zone. Teams seem to keep them pinned in almost at will, but then the Stars have a lot of trouble with sustained pressure in the other team's zone.


Polak's only fourth in ice time because his shifts in his own zone go on for 90-120 seconds.

One guy isn't the reason for the transition game being bad.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby FrozenFailure » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:22 pm

The transition game sucks because no one knows how to catch or make a pass. The only one on the entire roster as far as I'm concerned who can consistently make an NHL caliber pass is Heiskanen. So Monty adjusted by playing super conservatively and minimizing passes that are further than 6 inches. Can't win a battle cleanly either. You can see it in how deep the defense plays, and where the first halfwall pass is to a guy with a head of steam. And honestly that only gets the puck to center ice because then 3+ defenders bear down on the lone carrier and then the puck comes right back in.

So yeah. Conservative because they aren't good enough to play real offensive slugfest hockey.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby mookie1010 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:34 pm

I realize that being Zubov level creative is 100% talent, but can't they teach / coach these guys on how to make competent passes rather than just develop a shitty scheme to overcome it?
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby FrozenFailure » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:01 pm

You would think that you can just coach/teach poor mechanics or play out of a player... but if they could, would Ritchie be an oil tanker? Would Nichushkin never elevate a puck? Would they keep Dickinson from getting constantly creamed? Would they have kept Robidas from having to take a hit all the time to make a play?

We see flashes of brilliance out of guys every night. Just flashes here and there, like fireflies on a summer night.

I really don't know if it's possible to fix some of the things that really keep the team from being amazing night in and night out.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:13 pm

mookie1010 wrote:I realize that being Zubov level creative is 100% talent, but can't they teach / coach these guys on how to make competent passes rather than just develop a shitty scheme to overcome it?


Well last year Hitch/Wilson gave Klingberg the green light to pass into the middle, but the other five guys had to rim every clear around the boards. It took all of 20 games for the rest of the league to figure that out. Hitch never adjusted.

I'm seeing a LOT less lazy rimming this season. But maybe more icings...?

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:39 pm

I hate lazy rimming. Either rim with gusto, or don't rim at all.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby BigAl » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:22 pm

Good mailbag from Heika

https://www.nhl.com/stars/news/mike-hei ... -303731308

With all of the coaches, there is a great deal of video teaching and on-ice teaching with all players to get them prepared to come in and out of the lineup or go up and down between the AHL and NHL. Players get a lot of information in this league.

But also relevant is how each individual handles the process. Coaches and managers put a lot of emphasis on the individual forcing his way into the lineup. When these players are challenged, these coaches want to see a response that they are demanding a place in the game. That, of course, causes a great deal of mental stress in the young player, and makes it hard to play the game. If you are trying to not make a mistake, that's a hard way to play hockey.

So we go through this every year with a long list of players. The ones that either gain the trust of the coaches or simply find a happy place in their mind, succeed. Esa Lindell is a great example of that. Jason Dickinson has learned how to handle it. Same with Devin Shore. Stephen Johns got to that place last season. Right now, players like Julius Honka, Connor Carrick, Roope Hintz and Denis Gurianov are still fighting that battle.

When we talk about development, the mental battle is a huge part of it, and I'm not sure teams really know how to handle that yet. Individuals are different, coaching staffs change, and every season is different. It's one of the great challenges of pro sports - maximizing the potential of your young players. I paraphrased Rustin Cohle from the TV series "True Detective" on Twitter when I said, "Hockey is a flat circle." That, to me, is the frustration of the fan. Every situations we are seeing, we have seen before, and every situation we are seeing, we will see again. It's a never-ending fight to solve the same problems.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:32 pm

Al said it better and more concisely when he called him Fabian Dickinson.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:34 pm

BigAl wrote:The team also doesn’t have any “energy” guys. Guys like Roussel or Sceviour that played with high intensity, skated hard, hit hard. Our bottom lines are full of mercurial types that are waiting to be inspired. Radulov might be the only one with a burning desire to win on every shift.


I’d like to see, in addition to a top six winger, a guy like Carl Hagelin. He’s fast, he’s been there and done that in the playoffs, and he’s got good bottom six talent.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:54 pm

I like Dickinson. He's got a lot of flair for drama, is one of our speediest young guys, and is pretty intelligent in his own end. He seemed to be coming around until he got hurt, too.

Gurianov is basically just "confidence" away from being awesome. Check out his AHL highlights (admittedly, against inferior competition). He just skates through dudes and rifles the puck in. At this level, he seems far more passive and tenative, always deferring to the big guns on his line, and offering up half-assed shots on goal, which is surprising, because even as a teenager he had an NHL shot.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:35 pm

Dickinson is fine. It's just, you know, "Whee... Another checking line player out of the first round!"
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:53 pm

He's lethal in OT.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:26 am

Dickinson fills a role. He’s a very good 4th line center, wins draws, can handle top players, is speedy. Maybe he moves up, with some more experience, maybe not. But he can play today’s game. The Stars need top 6 forwards and I don’t know where they will get them. Hintz and Gurianov are not them at this point. Anything tradable, we don’t want to trade, anything we do, won’t be enough. At least not his season.

So go with what you got. We aren’t a forward away from Cup glory. We might not even make the playoffs with an addition.

I do like Carl Hagelin, he is (was) speedy, but he had a knee injury. Maybe the King’s trade him for little, but he’s not this year’s answer.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:29 am

Gurianov is 10 mph and 40 goals away from being awesome in the NHL. In other words, a long way.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:30 am

Nill isn't going to go with what he's got because his job is on the line. This isn't like the past 5 years. Something will go down.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:08 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:Nill isn't going to go with what he's got because his job is on the line. This isn't like the past 5 years. Something will go down.

The problem with that is if he misses out on his first or second target, then he'll still make some kind of move just to make a move and we could end up with a *poo poo* move just for him trying something.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:10 am

wonko80 wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:Nill isn't going to go with what he's got because his job is on the line. This isn't like the past 5 years. Something will go down.

The problem with that is if he misses out on his first or second target, then he'll still make some kind of move just to make a move and we could end up with a *poo poo* move just for him trying something.


That's true. Whether it helps the team or not and whether I want it to or not, I think it will still happen. I hope it's a good move. But, given Nill's track record, it's a total crap shoot.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:18 am

wonko80 wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:Nill isn't going to go with what he's got because his job is on the line. This isn't like the past 5 years. Something will go down.

The problem with that is if he misses out on his first or second target, then he'll still make some kind of move just to make a move and we could end up with a *poo poo* move just for him trying something.

You kind of wonder how much of what will happen at this deadline builds on prior ones where Nill chose to do next to nothing to improve his team. The only late season additions I can think of in the Nill era were Tim Thomas and Kris Russell. Not exactly the kind of moves showing a team is all in on a playoff run. With his job on the line, does Nill abandon prior practice and actually make a deal worth remembering?
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:23 am

I have a feeling it will be a panic move like the Turgeon signing way back when. I hope he can swing a Panarin or something, but I doubt it.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby BigAl » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:25 am

Looking over the roster and, outside of the untouchables, I don’t see a lot that teams would be interested in. Maybe someone would be interested in taking a gamble on a package of Bayreuther + Hintz. Fedun would look good as a #7D on a contender.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:47 am

We're also right up against the cap, so there's that.

We're not a piece away from the Cup. I'd be fine with rolling the dice on this roster, playing Nash or Winnipeg in the first round, and seeing what happens.

If Janmark or Nuke or about six other forwards could stop having career low years all at the same time, that would probably add more value than some rental.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:52 am

Why make a trade, 5 games each out of Johns, Methot, and Hanzal will be our deadline acquisition!
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:55 am

ToddM wrote:We're also right up against the cap, so there's that.

We're not a piece away from the Cup. I'd be fine with rolling the dice on this roster, playing Nash or Winnipeg in the first round, and seeing what happens.

If Janmark or Nuke or about six other forwards could stop having career low years all at the same time, that would probably add more value than some rental.


Right, but you're thinking logically because you aren't in danger of being fired in the summer. I'm not so sure Nill will be so logical this year.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:08 pm

ToddM wrote:We're not a piece away from the Cup.


I don't care. I don't give one tenth of one *poo poo*. I want to watch Stars playoff hockey. Nill's grand "5 year plan" is worthless. We're in the same position we are as when he took over. I want to watch consistent playoff hockey and if that means Nill needs to make some trades, then go and make some trades. Best case, we make it in to the playoffs and have a good run. Worst case, we suck and get another mid-round draft pick, which is what we're looking at now.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:17 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:Why make a trade, 5 games each out of Johns, Methot, and Hanzal will be our deadline acquisition!

Each?? That's a tad optimistic.

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