2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

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Troy McClure
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:51 am

I want no part of a 35 year old dude who still has two years left on his deal.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:09 am

But don't you remember how great he was 17 years ago?!?!

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:15 pm

Did a little research... about the Stars "power" play.

Games 1-5: 54.5% (first) - hot streak
Games 6-16: 11.5% (28th) - with Klingberg
Games 17-25: 7.4% (29th) - without Klingberg

Games 6-25: 9.3% (last) - total post-hot streak
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:48 pm

slaps wrote:Small matter of affording $6MM in salary.

B Kat wrote:Pass.

Troy McClure wrote:I want no part of a 35 year old dude who still has two years left on his deal.

ToddM wrote:But don't you remember how great he was 17 years ago?!?!

Man, you all say that but if we had signed him this past off-season because of the Radulov connection then that basically would have addressed our secondary scoring issue (which has now devolved into just a scoring period issue). He had 14 points in 14 games before the Kings completely fell apart. He'd be tied for 4th (just after the big three) with Spezza (with one less game played) in team scoring as of right now. And that's with him getting 6 to 9 minutes a game under Desjardins.

Y'all are the epitome of that dog sitting in the fiery room.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/ ... ourth-line
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:24 pm

Sure, but I assume signing him this off-season would have meant not signing Comeau and Nichushkin. Unfortunately, now that those two are here and under contract for next season at least, it means this team doesn't have the cap room to add Kovalev.

Adding him now would mean trading something to the Kings. It would also mean trading other stuff to other teams to encourage them to eat some of these bad contracts.

In the end, you're talking about paying a price equal to winning his free agency bidding process plus giving away trade pieces. That's the kind of move you reserve for acquiring a holdout younger RFA like Nylander.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:42 pm

Troy McClure wrote:Sure, but I assume signing him this off-season would have meant not signing Comeau and Nichushkin. Unfortunately, now that those two are here and under contract for next season at least, it means this team doesn't have the cap room to add Kovalev.

Adding him now would mean trading something to the Kings. It would also mean trading other stuff to other teams to encourage them to eat some of these bad contracts.

In the end, you're talking about paying a price equal to winning his free agency bidding process plus giving away trade pieces.

That's the kind of move you reserve for acquiring a holdout younger RFA like Nylander.

Well then we'll be reserving our garbage trade pieces for forever then because we're not getting Nylander, and I can't remember the last time a quality young RFA holdout actually changed teams. Can you?

Everything you said seems to read like you're on my side LOL.

It's time for this roster to *poo poo* or get off the pot. We can't even buy a goal and everyone outside of the top line and top d pairing sucks absolute *poo poo*. The only reason Monty is showing any patience at all is because he's a friggin' n00b coach. Nill needs to do something, because again, outside the impossible realm of acquiring Nylander (LOL), what do?

This is fine.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:09 pm

The Nylander situation is resolved Saturday at 5:00 PST one way or another.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:15 pm

Knives Out wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:Sure, but I assume signing him this off-season would have meant not signing Comeau and Nichushkin. Unfortunately, now that those two are here and under contract for next season at least, it means this team doesn't have the cap room to add Kovalev.

Adding him now would mean trading something to the Kings. It would also mean trading other stuff to other teams to encourage them to eat some of these bad contracts.

In the end, you're talking about paying a price equal to winning his free agency bidding process plus giving away trade pieces.

That's the kind of move you reserve for acquiring a holdout younger RFA like Nylander.

Well then we'll be reserving our garbage trade pieces for forever then because we're not getting Nylander, and I can't remember the last time a quality young RFA holdout actually changed teams. Can you?

Everything you said seems to read like you're on my side LOL.

It's time for this roster to *poo poo* or get off the pot. We can't even buy a goal and everyone outside of the top line and top d pairing sucks absolute *poo poo*. The only reason Monty is showing any patience at all is because he's a friggin' n00b coach. Nill needs to do something, because again, outside the impossible realm of acquiring Nylander (LOL), what do?

This is fine.

I’m absolutely on the side of making changes.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:36 am

I'd be in on trading for someone like Jesse Puljujärvi. He could likely use a change of scenery, which is the best we can hope for at this point. I'd have no issue trading Honka and Ritchie plus a mid-round pick if that would do it. Honka needs a new start, too.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:52 am

So I wanted to go check on Bayruther's scoring stats. As of this post, the Star's NHL website doesn't list him in the Stats section, which i think is funny. Apparently they've fallen behind in updating the 28 defensemen the Stars have used this year. Oddly enough though, Fedun and Hanley are listed. Bayruther and Gleason are not. Just weird because Bayruther should have had some assists from previous games.

He is listed on the full NHL stats page that shows all players.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:54 am

If nothing else, we at least know we have some decent defensive depth.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:54 am

Also, Bayruther now has more points than Honka (see you at the crossroads) and tied with Val (in 13 less games).

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:12 am

wonko80 wrote:Also, Bayruther now has more points than Honka (see you at the crossroads) and tied with Val (in 13 less games).

The list of guys on NHL rosters with fewer points than those two is predominantly made up of goalies.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 am

And somehow the Stars are again 5th in the Western conference, behind three Central teams.

Vegas and Colorado are on nice winning streaks (4 and 6 games, respectively).

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:26 am

Good video-heavy breakdown on Val. Pretty much sums up what we all see: the guy is doing all the right things, playing defense and forechecking at an extremely high level, skating well without the puck, creating turnovers, winning one-on-one battles. And never scoring, though he does create goals for others (like Spezza's snipe last night) with his forecheck and puck-hunting skillz.

https://theathletic.com/679836/2018/11/ ... ichushkin/

Shapiro's takeaway is basically mine: in a vaccum, Val has been a really solid player for Dallas. But!-- considering his draft pedigree "as the Next Malkin", he's been a massive disappointment. I do think that as long as he keeps up playing the right way, the goals will come eventually (same with Janmark, who has been similarly snakebitten this season).

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:30 am

ToddM wrote:Good video-heavy breakdown on Val. Pretty much sums up what we all see: the guy is doing all the right things, playing defense and forechecking at an extremely high level, skating well without the puck, creating turnovers, winning one-on-one battles. And never scoring, though he does create goals for others (like Spezza's snipe last night) with his forecheck and puck-hunting skillz.

https://theathletic.com/679836/2018/11/ ... ichushkin/

Shapiro's takeaway is basically mine: in a vaccum, Val has been a really solid player for Dallas. But!-- considering his draft pedigree "as the Next Malkin", he's been a massive disappointment. I do think that as long as he keeps up playing the right way, the goals will come eventually (same with Janmark, who has been similarly snakebitten this season).


No.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:58 am

ToddM wrote:Good video-heavy breakdown on Val. Pretty much sums up what we all see: the guy is doing all the right things, playing defense and forechecking at an extremely high level, skating well without the puck, creating turnovers, winning one-on-one battles. And never scoring, though he does create goals for others (like Spezza's snipe last night) with his forecheck and puck-hunting skillz.

https://theathletic.com/679836/2018/11/ ... ichushkin/

Shapiro's takeaway is basically mine: in a vaccum, Val has been a really solid player for Dallas. But!-- considering his draft pedigree "as the Next Malkin", he's been a massive disappointment. I do think that as long as he keeps up playing the right way, the goals will come eventually (same with Janmark, who has been similarly snakebitten this season).

I like Shapiro a lot, but he tried too hard to be kind with this piece. He tries to do the "if you ignore where he was drafted and his cap hit, Val is doing great" thing, but it's not that simple. He missed the mark on how Nichushkin's zero offense has filtered down.

The draft spot doesn't matter at this point. Not to me. Maybe it does to Nill, which is why Nill was so eager to bring Val back on a two-year deal. Nill desperately wants his first ever draft pick to be a success. But Nill's readiness to give Nichushkin that contract is looking as bad as the pick itself. Would another GM with no connection to drafting Nichushking have given him this contract? I kind of doubt it.

Setting aside the motivation behind Nill signing Val, let's look at how Nill included Nichushkin in his plan for how he built this team. He had Nichushkin signed before free agency began, and they announced it on July 1st. He signed Nichushkin to be an offense-generating 2nd line winger. We know this because Nill would bring him up when talking about his off season additions. Nill gave Val a contract that tripled his prior cap hit and made it a two year deal because Nill thought he was finding a fix for his second line woes.

Nichushkin did not help the second line. He was a total failure there and has generated no offense at all. Instead, Monty has moved him down to the third line. That Nichushkin seems to be salvaging his NHL career by becoming a checking line winger is certainly good for his hopes of staying in the NHL, but it has blown up Nill's plan for his roster. It created a hole on the second line that took two months to kind of fix by plugging Hintz in there. While Hintz is certainly a big upgrade over Nichushkin, he's still not going to be the 40-50 point player Nill wanted out of that spot.

Look at it this way... if Nill knew Nichushkin's destiny would be as a winger on Faksa's line, I doubt he gives Val $3 million. Or I doubt he also signs Comeau. I mean, there's no way he meant to spent $5.5 million on two guys to do the same job of playing a checking role while providing no offense.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:09 am

Even if you ignore Val's draft position and cap hit, he's still about the 11th best forward on the roster. The only two guys I might slot him ahead of are Gemel Smith and Ritchie.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:24 am

$3 million isn't a lot for a bottom-six winger with potential offensive upside. For example: Comeau.

Obviously our second line is a crapshoot. Val and Janmark were penciled in as the starting wingers and both have combined for all of 1 goal through 26 games. That much is obvious. But it's not like we're watching Adam Burish or Ladislav Nagy out there. Val and Janmark have been playing well. They're skating with energy and speed, and creating scoring chances from literally nothing. They're going out there and doing all the right things... except for scoring. Obviously that sucks. But at the same time, the work ethic and small things and one-on-one battles and scoring threats are about right for two scoring wingers who are also being defensively responsible. Is THAT worth $3 million a season? Probably not, but it's not so far off that it should make people write off two good young players.

As an example since it's still fresh in the mind, look at Spezza's goal last night, one minute into the game. It's a standard dump-in, until Val plows in like a bulldozer (against three Flames), wins the puck behind the net (twice!), and shakes it loose. Faksa takes it behind the net and makes a brilliant backhand pass to a streaking Spezza, who is wide-the-fuck-open and buries it. But why is Spezza open? Because Val crashes the net and draws three (3) Flame defenders to himself (which probably also helped screen the goalie).

Val gets zero offensive credit for that goal, not even a secondary assist. But he still did a majority of the work to make it happen. Heiskanen gets it from him and taps it behind the net to get the secondary assist, while Val fought three guys twice and won, then drew defenders off Spezza.... zero credit. So, according to you guys, Val SUCKS.

Every game is pretty much like this. Val gets bumped up and down the lineup and plays with a new group of guys every shift, yet it's his line that pretty much pots one or sometimes two goals a game, and usually it starts with him forechecking on a listless dump-in. Or he gets tasked with covering CONNOR *fargin'* MCDAVID, because he's the only Star that can stay with him, stride-for-stride (McDavid's line: zero points). The stats aren't flashy, true. But I'll take a player like that any day of the week.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:24 am

Troy summed it up. He's doing great as a third line winger. The problem is he was signed to be a second line scoring winger. So he is in fact failing at what he is supposed to do.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:35 am

Let's tap the breaks on who was charged with slowing down McDavid. That was Faksa's job. Nichushkin just happens to be on his line.

And Val has a cap hit of $2.95 million. Comeau's is $2.4 million. Faksa's is $2.2 million. Val wasn't paid that much more than either of them to be just a slightly better checking winger than Comeau. Nichushkin is the fifth highest paid forward on this team, yet he's been passed on the depth chart by Shore and Hintz, both of whom are cheaper options.

Nichushkin isn't living up to the job or contract he was brought in to do, and it has hurt the team. Now, Nill is busy trying to sell fans on the idea of Hanzal coming back in and going to the second line to provide some offense because Nichushkin couldn't get the job done.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:25 pm

The same Hanzal who is utterly unnecessary to this roster AND has a crippling cap hit that's impeding a trade for an actual need such as a scoring winger? I can't wait until that guy is back.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Eh, I'd take a shot at with a broken Hanzal over the generic jobbers we are trotting out on the bottom lines currently. Hanzal will at least win some faceoffs for five games before he gets injured again.
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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:53 pm

Hanzal could at least theoretically serve as the net-front presence the team is lacking. That is until someone touches his spine and it shatters in to a million pieces.

Think that is one of the problems with the Stars lack of scoring. Other than an occasional foray by Benn, they really don't have anyone who gets to the top of the crease, plants themselves there and provides a good screen or the "gritty" rebound goal. Think it was against Edmonton or Colorado, but I seem to remember Seguin trying to do that on a powerplay and thinking that was a gross misuse of his talents.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:56 pm

cdanew wrote:Hanzal could at least theoretically serve as the net-front presence the team is lacking. That is until someone touches his spine and it shatters in to a million pieces.

Think that is one of the problems with the Stars lack of scoring. Other than an occasional foray by Benn, they really don't have anyone who gets to the top of the crease, plants themselves there and provides a good screen or the "gritty" rebound goal. Think it was against Edmonton or Colorado, but I seem to remember Seguin trying to do that on a powerplay and thinking that was a gross misuse of his talents.


That's Ritchie's one thing he does well. Take up space and stuff home garbage rebounds. He proved it two seasons ago, but since then... not so much.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:08 pm

So you're saying he actually doesn't do it well.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:42 pm

When he was given decent minutes, he scored. When he wasn't, he didn't. Same as literally every other NHL player.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:45 pm

Looks like Bishop is back.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:52 pm

I cannot stress enough how amazing it felt this past week to see our starter go down but still not worry about our goaltending, as if it were an afterthought. What a luxury in a post Lehtonen PTSD world.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

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Re: 2018-2019 Stars Regular Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:50 pm

Bishop is officially starting.

And there is other news I find funny.

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