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Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:45 pm
by SaintAngerBH
slaps wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:
wonko80 wrote:Again, it's mostly just bitterness due to the fact that your team is most likely instantly less successful than theirs, both in terms of results and in terms of roster building. It's actually a fun story.

On the other hand, they have Neal, who is a piece of *poo poo*, so that can be an acceptable reason to not like them.


Not really. I was annoyed with it when I thought the Stars might make a run earlier in the year. I'm annoyed because they got several advantages that former expansion teams were not given due to the salary cap era. As I said earlier, there should be a big fat asterisk next to their season for that.

Plus, they have Cody Eakin and a former Penguin doing a brick wall impression in goal. That alone is enough to hate their guts.


What advantages? Literally everyone picked them to be dead last, or close to it, at the beginning of the season. It's pretty revisionist to go back now and say it's unfair because they have all these so-called advantages over previous expansion teams.


I think they picked them to be dead last because of the label "expansion team" without really looking at the roster. Even I was guilty of that early on.

However, I gave links to the starting rosters of expansion teams from the 90s and the difference is pretty large. Those expansion teams got the absolute trash of the NHL except for a rare Manny Fernandez or Ray Ferarro. The Knights got some relatively nice pieces all in the same draft. The Knights started out in a place far ahead of any prior expansion team on paper.

No doubt, they are a good team. But, to me, they are just a good team and not some unique story.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:00 pm
by atticus ross
Yeah I never read anything or heard anyone say that Vegas was going to be a good team, let alone a great team and one of the top teams in the league this season. I wrote them off and expected an easy Stars win the first game of the season. But I was wrong. A lot of people were wrong. Vegas deserves to be where they are at and have earned every success they have experienced up to this point.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:09 pm
by SaintAngerBH
I certainly don't disagree with that. I'm just sick of everyone treating them as if they are the 1991 San Jose Sharks going to the Stanley Cup Finals. This isn't even remotely the case.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:24 pm
by slaps
Even the worst player on an NHL roster today is better than 98% of the rosters in the early 90's. That was before NHL players discovered things like "exercise" and "nutrition."

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:53 pm
by #JTONTFJTGM
For this season's playoffs, GSAA = Goals Saved Above Average, meaning how many more goals each goaltender saved versus what league-average goaltending would be expected to save against the same quality of shots:


Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:58 pm
by ToddM
Yeah, this run has been about 98% Fleury playing like someone you'd use the first-overall pick on, 2% grit/ReillySmith/chipontheirshoulder/teamspeed.

Quick note: remember exactly one year ago when we were considering getting Fleury but didn't because he was 'done'? Good times.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:13 pm
by ScubaSteve
https://omny.fm/shows/nhl-on-nbc-sports ... nces-to-st

Boy, this triggers some member berries.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:04 pm
by SaintAngerBH
I don't recognize it. Who is that?

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:41 pm
by ScubaSteve
I don’t know

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:50 pm
by mookie1010
SaintAngerBH wrote:
wonko80 wrote:Again, it's mostly just bitterness due to the fact that your team is most likely instantly less successful than theirs, both in terms of results and in terms of roster building. It's actually a fun story.

On the other hand, they have Neal, who is a piece of *poo poo*, so that can be an acceptable reason to not like them.


Not really. I was annoyed with it when I thought the Stars might make a run earlier in the year. I'm annoyed because they got several advantages that former expansion teams were not given due to the salary cap era. As I said earlier, there should be a big fat asterisk next to their season for that.

Plus, they have Cody Eakin and a former Penguin doing a brick wall impression in goal. That alone is enough to hate their guts.

You're literally mad that this team played the hand they were dealt exceptionally well. They didn't make the rules, they didn't rig the game. They played the rules according to the rule makers and won. Being mad about that is - to me - very short-sighted, subjective and self-serving.

Sorry, NHL dogma. You lost. Stop bitching about it, learn what the other guy did and improve.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:36 pm
by SaintAngerBH
mookie1010 wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:
wonko80 wrote:Again, it's mostly just bitterness due to the fact that your team is most likely instantly less successful than theirs, both in terms of results and in terms of roster building. It's actually a fun story.

On the other hand, they have Neal, who is a piece of *poo poo*, so that can be an acceptable reason to not like them.


Not really. I was annoyed with it when I thought the Stars might make a run earlier in the year. I'm annoyed because they got several advantages that former expansion teams were not given due to the salary cap era. As I said earlier, there should be a big fat asterisk next to their season for that.

Plus, they have Cody Eakin and a former Penguin doing a brick wall impression in goal. That alone is enough to hate their guts.

You're literally mad that this team played the hand they were dealt exceptionally well. They didn't make the rules, they didn't rig the game. They played the rules according to the rule makers and won. Being mad about that is - to me - very short-sighted, subjective and self-serving.

Sorry, NHL dogma. You lost. Stop bitching about it, learn what the other guy did and improve.


This is a strawman argument. I have made it pretty clear that I am annoyed by the media blowing this up as if this is some team full of AHL scrubs scratching and clawing their way to the cup finals. This expansion team is like no other expansion team in NHL history because they were able to select significantly better players than prior expansion teams (even after taking into account the general increase in talent in the NHL when compared to the 90s).

They are a good team and absolutely deserve to be where they are. I never argued otherwise. I just think there should be an asterisk there because this is not like the 1993 Mighty Ducks or the 1992 Lightning miraculously getting to the cup final. They started out far ahead of any other expansion team talent-wise.

EDIT: I mistyped the post you quoted because I didn't make that one clear enough that my issue is with the media and their interpretation of this so I see why you said what you said.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:57 pm
by mookie1010
Every analysis I see makes it clear that this LVK team is very different from a normal expansion team.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:56 pm
by #JTONTFJTGM

William Karlsson's last two seasons playing for the Blue Jackets:

2015-'16 - 81 games played, 9 goals on 108 shots (8.3% shooting) and 20 points averaging 14:28 of ice time per game.

2016-'17 - 81 games played, 6 goals on 96 shots (6.3% shooting) and 25 points averaging 13:23 of ice time per game.

In 82 games for the Golden Knights this season Karlsson scored 43 goals on 184 shots (23.4% shooting) and 78 points averaging 18:43 of ice time per game.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:24 am
by ToddM
I can't blame the GMs for the Fleury or Karlsson dumps (Karlsson could well end up being the Brady Anderson of hockey), but I will never understand the reasoning behind that Florida trade. It'd be like us trading them Radulov to select Janmark, in order to protect Elie.

I doubt Seattle will get any trades these one-sided, but then again, NHL GMs aren't the brightest bananas in the bunch.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:08 am
by B Kat
slaps wrote:And while the rules were different for Vegas, all teams had the opportunity to protect their top players. Vegas got a bunch of castoffs that the teams didn't consider good enough to keep.

Technically they were castoffs, but many teams would have loved to have a couple more protections, but they just made what they thought were the best decisions. OK, several teams got it wrong. I don’t think the Vegas GM was holding a gun to their heads. These GMs in addition, made a few more crazy trades, mostly to help their cap situation, that helped Vegas.

What I love about Vegas is their mentality. Led by Fluery, I’d like to think, they use that cast off chip on their shoulder to conquer the world. And with a good coach, and a system that matches their players, voila.

Four more games is all they need. No one doesn’t believe they can’t do it now. (So maybe they’ll fall apart in the Final, but I wouldn’t bet on it.)

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:06 am
by SaintAngerBH
Even if I liked Vegas, I'd still be pulling for Ovechkin. It would be a travesty if he didn't win a cup before retiring.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:45 pm
by ToddM
Good read on Vegas from a year ago next month:

https://deadspin.com/wow-the-golden-kni ... 1796327043

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:14 pm
by ScubaSteve
ToddM wrote:Good read on Vegas from a year ago next month:

https://deadspin.com/wow-the-golden-kni ... 1796327043


Reminds me of this deadspin hot take:

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/donal ... 1788618628

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:43 pm
by cdanew
ToddM wrote:Good read on Vegas from a year ago next month:

https://deadspin.com/wow-the-golden-kni ... 1796327043


The comments were particularly amusing.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:27 pm
by Knives Out
I have been incredily entertained these playoffs.
The hockey itself has been awesome, and for the first time ever I did not hate a single team in the final 4.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:10 pm
by SaintAngerBH
I like the hate. It simulates the experience I have when my team is there. If I don't have anyone to hate, then I become apathetic to the game and get bored.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:18 pm
by atticus ross
Not me. Of course I would prefer the Stars be in the playoffs but I get stressed out when they do make it. When they miss or get knocked out I find that I can enjoy the other series being played.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:45 pm
by SaintAngerBH
3-0 Caps.

Tampa Bay gonna Washington.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:42 pm
by Jason



Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:53 pm
by SaintAngerBH
That isn't the first time I've seen 7 in this playoffs. I'm pretty sure Winnipeg did the same thing against the Knights during one game.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:48 pm
by slaps
This is a really interesting analysis of Tom Wilson’s game 7 against the Lightning. I love articles like this.

https://theathletic.com/366984/2018/05/ ... er-played/

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:16 am
by wonko80
Great read.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:21 am
by One_Timer
Bueno

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:30 am
by SaintAngerBH
His hit was Marchment-esque. Not cool.

Re: 2018 NHL Playoffs

Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:25 pm
by slaps
http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/2357 ... y-pick-nhl

"We like our team right now. We've got speed up the middle, scoring on the wing, veterans and young guys on defense. We're in a good place," he said. "This could not have gone better, in my mind." The press didn't listen to McPhee. Some headlines:

The Hockey News: "How good will the Golden Knights be? Not very."

Deadspin: "Wow The Golden Knights Are Going To Be Bad."

Newsweek: "Vegas Golden Knights Are Going To Suck in 2017-18 And Here's Why."

Perhaps most damning: The sportsbooks in Vegas listed their new home team with 250-1 odds to win the Stanley Cup in its inaugural season, the highest of any club. (Oh, and our Power Rankings? Here ya go.)

The unprecedented success of Vegas in Year One has caused a truly bizarre ret-conning of the expansion draft, as if the Knights were simply gifted a Western Conference championship team. There was no certainty for greatness. For every home run, there was something foul. Looking back at the formula, it was equal parts shrewd scouting, players exceeding expectations and a hearty helping of leverage.