2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

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Knives Out
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:33 pm

Troy McClure wrote:I think he puts them something like $3-4 million over the cap. That's a lot of money to move.

Not really. Send someone to Vegas as a consolation prize LOL. They ate Clarkson’s contract just to reach the cap floor FFS. Or send someone to the Habs. Their GM is also retarded and their best player is cap space.

SaintAngerBH wrote:Oh, so it's not a matter of being "unwilling" it's "we can't." That sucks.

You’re allowed to be 10% over the cap by the first preseason game. You also have to assume that some money (even if only just a couple mill) is going back the other way in the form of some roster players. This is a scenario where if you can get Karlsson and keep Heiskanen by including Ryan then you *fargin'* do it and then you have all summer to figure out how to move one other contract ...
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:38 pm

I think moving the Spezza and Hanzal contracts will be tough. But you can find some team to give you a 3rd rounder for Ritchie, which clears $1.75 million. Methot's contract is also movable if the Stars eat some of the cap hit.
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:55 pm

I don’t think, at this point, we’re getting Karlsson. Seems like too much time has passed now, and they’ve had other offers come in.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Jason » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:56 pm


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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:20 pm

I kind of agree about keeping Miro. I dunno. I'm torn.

However, I will pack Honka's bags for him for Karlsson. Even Benn's.
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:08 pm

That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:34 pm

I've had a lot of time to think about this, and I have, and the more I do the more I'm okay with Nill walking away if it means keeping Heiskanen, BUT ONLY if we actually address our secondary scoring need with a Panarin/Skinner/Pacioretty type of trade before the season starts. That is the only scenario where being blue ball teased Erik Karlsson is okay. We can then take a shot at signing EK65 when he becomes a UFA without losing any assets (and assuming that he doesn't extend with another team LOL).

Mostly I'm just going numb though because I truly believe that EK is our only option of acquiring said secondary scoring right now because Nill is unsurprisingly oblivious to the issue. The sickening feeling of watching him go to Vegas solely because they'll take Ryan too is starting to creep in. Ryan, who in theory, would also provide us with some secondary scoring LOL.

Who knows though. Karlsson is the one holding all of the cards. What if he's already told Dorion that he'll only extend with Dallas? Hence why we havent been told to *f-bomb* off yet and why he hasn't already been traded to Vegas along with Ryan. What if Nill realizes this? What if Karlsson is doing what Brichards did to us at the TDL and refusing to be traded to a team so that they don't lose any assets fully knowing that he'll sign with them at a later date?

This is all very frustrating. Especially after the Tavares bullshit.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:40 pm

It’s all frustrating because of Nill’s mismanagement for the past several years.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Jason » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:42 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:I kind of agree about keeping Miro. I dunno. I'm torn.

However, I will pack Honka's bags for him for Karlsson. Even Benn's.


Heiskanen's cheap 3 seasons is needed for this to work. With Seguin and Karlsson's extensions.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Jason » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:46 pm

Knives Out wrote:I've had a lot of time to think about this, and I have, and the more I do the more I'm okay with Nill walking away if it means keeping Heiskanen, BUT ONLY if we actually address our secondary scoring need with a Panarin/Skinner/Pacioretty type of trade before the season starts. That is the only scenario where being blue ball teased Erik Karlsson is okay. We can then take a shot at signing EK65 when he becomes a UFA without losing any assets (and assuming that he doesn't extend with another team LOL).

Mostly I'm just going numb though because I truly believe that EK is our only option of acquiring said secondary scoring right now because Nill is unsurprisingly oblivious to the issue. The sickening feeling of watching him go to Vegas solely because they'll take Ryan too is starting to creep in. Ryan, who in theory, would also provide us with some secondary scoring LOL.

Who knows though. Karlsson is the one holding all of the cards. What if he's already told Dorion that he'll only extend with Dallas? Hence why we havent been told to *f-bomb* off yet and why he hasn't already been traded to Vegas along with Ryan. What if Nill realizes this? What if Karlsson is doing what Brichards did to us at the TDL and refusing to be traded to a team so that they don't lose any assets fully knowing that he'll sign with them at a later date?

This is all very frustrating. Especially after the Tavares bullshit.


Getting Ryan in this is going to be tough, I'm sure it's doable someway and he's really good in the playoffs.
It's hard to find one team who will give up a lot for Karlsson and pay him the money he wants it's too big of a risk. That's why the offers are so low.
It's too big of a risk for Ottawa to keep Karlsson, because if he gets injured and misses the season, they lose him for nothing.

The secondary scoring I don't think it is that bad as it appears. The team's inability to move the puck from the back end, dumping the puck in so often hurt the team's offense, transition game. These are things which will improve with Heiskanen and whatever happens with Honka/Karlsson stuff, the coaching change.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:46 pm

Just checked Ryan's stats over the last few years.


Holy *poo poo* that guy/contract sucks.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:14 am

ToddM wrote:Just checked Ryan's stats over the last few years.


Holy *poo poo* that guy/contract sucks.

And they gave Anaheim Jacob Silfverberg to get him.

D\

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:45 am

What happened to him? I thought he was supposed to be pretty good back in the day.
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:21 am

slaps wrote:It’s all frustrating because of Nill’s mismanagement for the past several years.

And because his biggest moves last summer were signing older guys like Radulov, Bishop, Methot, and Hanzal. Those were expensive additions designed to help the team win now.

The Heiskanen question is very different from the usual prospect we are used to debating trading who is still seasons away from doing good things in the NHL. He’s still an unknown, but the belief is he’s NHL ready today — and ready to be good. So even if you view all of this as a short window, Heiskanen is thought to be good enough to be a positive contributor during this win now window. He would also be such a cap friendly addition.
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 am


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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:43 am

Wonderful...
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:44 am

Although, that doesn't make much sense since Tampa is in the east.
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby CraigG » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:44 am

This is feeling like another Jim Nill d1ck pull.............
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:46 am

If Nill doesn't get Karlsson, there really isn't much to be excited about this year except for Heiskanen I guess.

Will just wait for the season after and assume this season is a loss.
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:59 am

If Nill doesn't get Karlsson or some other stud in a trade, the next step in this debacle will be Seguin's people telling the Stars he wants to hold off on extension talk until after the season.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:00 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:If Nill doesn't get Karlsson, there really isn't much to be excited about this year except for Heiskanen I guess.

Will just wait for the season after and assume this season is a loss.

- New coach who is good with young players
- No more Kari
- Seguin in a contract year
- Heiskanen

Those are all pretty good reasons to get excited

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:03 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:Although, that doesn't make much sense since Tampa is in the east.


If Ottawa was any good and was worried about trading EK to a true rival then I can understand the hesitation. But Ottawa was 2nd to last in the league last year and they are a complete mess. They aren't competing with Tampa for many years in all likelihood so they should get the best deal they can from whoever they can and not worry about conference or division.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby cdanew » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:07 am

Troy McClure wrote:If Nill doesn't get Karlsson or some other stud in a trade, the next step in this debacle will be Seguin's people telling the Stars he wants to hold off on extension talk until after the season.


Unless Seguin just absolutely loves it in Dallas and playing with his buddy Benn, why would he sign an extension? I guess you could argue the bird in the hand theory, but if winning a Cup again is important to him I can see how all of the unknowns with Dallas would keep him from that extension. While the Stars don't have the off-ice issues the Islanders do, they certainly have not had the on-ice success that keeps you excited. Now you add a rookie coach on top of all of the other factors? Doesn't create a lot of optimism.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:14 am

cdanew wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:If Nill doesn't get Karlsson or some other stud in a trade, the next step in this debacle will be Seguin's people telling the Stars he wants to hold off on extension talk until after the season.


Unless Seguin just absolutely loves it in Dallas and playing with his buddy Benn, why would he sign an extension? I guess you could argue the bird in the hand theory, but if winning a Cup again is important to him I can see how all of the unknowns with Dallas would keep him from that extension. While the Stars don't have the off-ice issues the Islanders do, they certainly have not had the on-ice success that keeps you excited. Now you add a rookie coach on top of all of the other factors? Doesn't create a lot of optimism.

I'm with you. I'd be reluctant if I was him as well. Third coach in three seasons. Lots of roster chaos. A GM who is probably 50/50 on whether he's around next season, and we all know a new GM means additional roster/coaching changes as the new GM tries to put his stamp on things.

I guess it just seems like Stars media and most fans are taking it for granted that Seguin will sign with the Stars.
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:21 am

cdanew wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:Although, that doesn't make much sense since Tampa is in the east.


If Ottawa was any good and was worried about trading EK to a true rival then I can understand the hesitation. But Ottawa was 2nd to last in the league last year and they are a complete mess. They aren't competing with Tampa for many years in all likelihood so they should get the best deal they can from whoever they can and not worry about conference or division.


Apparently Melnyk has a divisional hangup.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:23 am

Troy McClure wrote:If Nill doesn't get Karlsson or some other stud in a trade, the next step in this debacle will be Seguin's people telling the Stars he wants to hold off on extension talk until after the season.


I'm torn on this one. It's Erik freaking Karlsson, but at the same time, I kind of get holding on to Heiskanen. By all accounts, he could be really damn good in short order, and be a hell of a lot cheaper.

But if we miss on Karlsson, we really need to go after Pacioretty / Skinner / Panarin, etc. We can't do another season of one line being responsible for almost 50% of the scoring.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:26 am

slaps wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:If Nill doesn't get Karlsson or some other stud in a trade, the next step in this debacle will be Seguin's people telling the Stars he wants to hold off on extension talk until after the season.


I'm torn on this one. It's Erik freaking Karlsson, but at the same time, I kind of get holding on to Heiskanen. By all accounts, he could be really damn good in short order, and be a hell of a lot cheaper.

But if we miss on Karlsson, we really need to go after Pacioretty / Skinner / Panarin, etc. We can't do another season of one line being responsible for almost 50% of the scoring.

I'm also more in on Karlsson than any forward because he plays the kind of hockey I love to watch. Watching him do his thing would make watching Stars games 50% more enjoyable for me, so I'm all for it on the selfish side of things. I don't know why, but it's these high hockey IQ d-men who impress me the most and make me want to watch hockey. It's one of those things where my Stars expectations are so low that I pretty much have given up on them being a playoff factor, so I'll take the joy of watching a master of his craft do his thing in the regular season for the better part of a decade.
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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:29 am

Totally agree. But more than any other prospect, I think Heiskanen has the ability to become that kind of defenseman in very short order. If, however, the holdup is someone like Honka, Nichushkin, or Gurianov, then Nill should just go ahead and be fired immediately.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:47 am

Getting Karlsson would be awesome, but I won't be all broken up about it if he went somewhere else. We have an amazing and exciting #1 offensive d-man already on the roster, at about a third the cost. Klingberg also, unlike Karlsson, plays actual defense, which makes him more valuable and will siphon ice time and hence offensive opportunities from EK. So even if we got him, his production would drop, everyone would get mad, and (worst case scenario) we'd blame Nill for letting Lidstrom 2.0 go for some d-man who scores 45-50 points and gets burned every other shift.

For the same reason, it makes no sense whatsoever for Tampa to pursue him. The offensive difference between Hedman and EK is not that great, and Hedman is a million times better at actual defending. And Tampa can't afford EK, and they REALLY can't afford EK + Ryan. A lot of quality players will have to be shipped out to make that work.

Vegas makes the most sense from Ottawa's point of view. They can easily absorb EK/Ryan, they can ship out tons of picks in return which will likely be awesome as Vegas falls back to earth, and they're not in Ottawa's division.

I'd wager 70/30 EK goes to Vegas for an underwhelming return, fans get mad at Nill/Yzerman for missing out, and both Dallas and Tampa improve anyways while Vegas tanks.

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Re: 2018 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Jason » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:49 am


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