2018 Stars Off-Season SEGUIN RE-SIGNED 8 x 9.85 AAV

Jason
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby Jason » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:04 pm


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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:02 am

So....in their minds Ken Hitchcock is going to be extended?
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:12 am

That seems to be the prevailing thought.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:10 am

If coach Q is fired and we don't at least try to get him, I will be livid.
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:04 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:If coach Q is fired and we don't at least try to get him, I will be livid.

#JTONTFJTGM wrote:And for those thinking Joel Quenneville would do better than Hitch has here, Quenneville couldn't win a game in four tries against this Stars team and Hitch knocked his defending Stanley Cup Champion team out of the first round of the playoffs two years ago coaching a Blues team that had Jori *fargin'* Lehtera centering Jaden Schwartz and Vladimir Tarasenko.

And Quenneville had Artemi Panarin (2 goals, 7 points) and Marian Hossa (3 goals, 5 points) in that series plus Andrew Shaw scoring 4 goals and 6 points.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Q also has three Cups in recent memory. He's one retread I wouldn't mind.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:36 pm

ToddM wrote:Q also has three Cups in recent memory. He's one retread I wouldn't mind.

Would he be able to bring those three teams he had to coach with him?

If not, and he'd have to coach a roster resembling the one Jim Nill provided this season, I think you'd mind very much.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:35 pm

Yeah. I'm sure he had absolutely nothing to do with their success. He was just a figurehead standing behind the bench. He probably doesn't even know what icing is.
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:54 pm

#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
ToddM wrote:Q also has three Cups in recent memory. He's one retread I wouldn't mind.

Would he be able to bring those three teams he had to coach with him?

If not, and he'd have to coach a roster resembling the one Jim Nill provided this season, I think you'd mind very much.

What's the worst that happens? A third consecutive season of finishing 6th in the division and out of the playoffs?
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:50 pm

Troy McClure wrote:
#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
ToddM wrote:Q also has three Cups in recent memory. He's one retread I wouldn't mind.

Would he be able to bring those three teams he had to coach with him?

If not, and he'd have to coach a roster resembling the one Jim Nill provided this season, I think you'd mind very much.

What's the worst that happens? A third consecutive season of finishing 6th in the division and out of the playoffs?

What would make anyone think Quenneville would do better coaching here if the roster isn't significantly upgraded?

This is the second time in the last three seasons that Hitch has outcoached him and Quenneville's team scored a total of three goals when they were swept in the first round of the playoffs last year by the Predators.

That was with 28-year-old Patrick Kane, 28-year-old Jonathan Toews, 25-year-old Artemi Panarin and 33-year-old Duncan Keith with Marian Hossa, who scored 19 goals and 45 points in 73 regular season games, still playing, too.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:39 pm

I think you put way too much stock in head to head coaching results. I don't see much value in it when we have 82 game sample sizes to look at. If you want to gripe about rosters, Chicago entered the season with more flaws than the Stars. They even faced more in-season roster problems with Crawford missing most of the season.

Hitch did a bad job this season. Whether Q is the guy or not to chase, I hope the Stars seriously look at what's out there because Hitch wasn't good enough.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:42 pm

You're forgetting the coach shelflife. It's not that Q is a bad coach. It's that his message has run stale with the players (among other issues the Hawks have). Q's message would be new and fresh here and, even if we don't upgrade the roster, I think he would certainly be a better option than a coach who's style was old hat before the invention of the smartphone.
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:13 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:You're forgetting the coach shelflife. It's not that Q is a bad coach. It's that his message has run stale with the players (among other issues the Hawks have). Q's message would be new and fresh here and, even if we don't upgrade the roster, I think he would certainly be a better option than a coach who's style was old hat before the invention of the smartphone.

I'm not forgetting anything. You seem to have forgotten how great of a coach Hitch is.

The Blues had missed the playoffs in 2010 and 2011 when he was hired following their 6-7 start to the 2011-'12 season. During his time coaching in St. Louis only the Penguins had a better record and, thanks to Doug Armstrong, he never once had the benefit of coaching teams that were built properly to win the Stanley Cup with.

The only time one of his Blues teams lost in the playoffs to a team that wasn't built better than his was in 2015 when they lost to the Minnesota Wild in the first round in six games.

But he coached his team past Quenneville's defending Stanley Cup Champions in the playoffs the next year.

In the eight seasons Scotty Bowman was the general manager of the Buffalo Sabres, which included four seasons and parts of three others he was also the head coach, they never played in a Stanley Cup Final and missed the playoffs in 1986 and 1987 when there were only 21 teams in the league and 16 made the playoffs.

Did that mean he wasn't a great coach anymore or that his style was old hat? Or was he just not a good general manager in his first attempt at being one?

If his lack of success with the Sabres was a result of him no longer being a great head coach, how did he win the Stanley Cup as a head coach with the Penguins and three more with the Red Wings after his time in Buffalo?

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:23 pm

So the coach in Chicago is in no way responsible for their success, but in Dallas the coach is the sole reason this thing held together as long as it did.
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:38 pm

#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:You're forgetting the coach shelflife. It's not that Q is a bad coach. It's that his message has run stale with the players (among other issues the Hawks have). Q's message would be new and fresh here and, even if we don't upgrade the roster, I think he would certainly be a better option than a coach who's style was old hat before the invention of the smartphone.

I'm not forgetting anything. You seem to have forgotten how great of a coach Hitch is.

The Blues had missed the playoffs in 2010 and 2011 when he was hired following their 6-7 start to the 2011-'12 season. During his time coaching in St. Louis only the Penguins had a better record and, thanks to Doug Armstrong, he never once had the benefit of coaching teams that were built properly to win the Stanley Cup with.

The only time one of his Blues teams lost in the playoffs to a team that wasn't built better than his was in 2015 when they lost to the Minnesota Wild in the first round in six games.

But he coached his team past Quenneville's defending Stanley Cup Champions in the playoffs the next year.

In the eight seasons Scotty Bowman was the general manager of the Buffalo Sabres, which included four seasons and parts of three others he was also the head coach, they never played in a Stanley Cup Final and missed the playoffs in 1986 and 1987 when there were only 21 teams in the league and 16 made the playoffs.

Did that mean he wasn't a great coach anymore or that his style was old hat? Or was he just not a good general manager in his first attempt at being one?

If his lack of success with the Sabres was a result of him no longer being a great head coach, how did he win the Stanley Cup as a head coach with the Penguins and three more with the Red Wings after his time in Buffalo?


All of that "success" means nothing.

Number of total cup rings as a head coach:

Hitchcock 1 Quenneville 3

Number of cup rings in this millenium:

Hitchcock 0 Quenneville 3

Quenneville is the better coach in this era.
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:02 pm

I prefer Q because he adapts his style to suit the players he has. When he had McInnis and Pronger, his Blues were a stalwart defensive team that also put up a lot of points (thanks, Turgeon!). When he went to Chicago, he used a much more mobile defense and a 'swarm' offensive attack to score goals and win Cups. Hitch has tried to implement his singular, predictable style on all four teams he's coached, with mixed results.

Crucially, Q seems to get a lot out of his goalies, whether we're talking about Roman Turek, Crawford, or Stanley Cup Champion Goaltender Niemi. Hitch also gets results from his goalies, but at a severe cost in offense.

You could say "Kane and Toews and Keith are better than Seguin and Benn and Klingberg"... but really, even if they were (I think they're about the same), all the more reason to go out and get a coach that has proven he can work with elite players and get the most out of them. I know we rag on this roster, but I doubt there's an unemployed coach in the league who wouldn't want to coach this group.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby Jason » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:28 pm

Dreger on Seguin

“Well, it’s going to be interesting,” said Dreger. “I’m told that there really haven’t been any discussions internally within that Dallas Stars organization to extend the opportunity of furnishing a contract extension to Tyler Seguin on July 1, which is the first possible date that they could do that.

“That’s not to say that they’re not interested. There’s a lot of time for that, and as I said earlier in the pregame show, I think that there’s a lot of mulling over that has to take place within hockey operations.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:37 am

What? Seguin is the one piece that you know for sure you want to keep.
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:17 am

I don't think they're even allowed to talk extension with him until July, so my guess is they are more focused on immediate concerns like the fate of the coaching staff, what to do at the draft, what to do with Spezza, etc.

I think extending Seguin is a no brainer. The more difficult discussions are about what to do with the rest of the roster.
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby wonko80 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:33 am

Haven't been any discussions internally? That's bullshit. Of course they've talked about it. Maybe not with official memos or whatever, but you know they've sat in a room and brought it up.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby slaps » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:07 am

There isn't much to discuss. The only real question is what he gets. The answer is dependent on what Tavares gets. They know the cap on his salary will be less than McDavid, so the only other question is do they have an internal cap at Benn's salary, and will Seguin accept that? The term will almost certainly be the max term.

Otherwise, it probably just comes down to structure of the agreement - how much is salary (which he doesn't get in a lockout) or signing bonus (which he does), no-movement clause, etc.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:57 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:
#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:You're forgetting the coach shelflife. It's not that Q is a bad coach. It's that his message has run stale with the players (among other issues the Hawks have). Q's message would be new and fresh here and, even if we don't upgrade the roster, I think he would certainly be a better option than a coach who's style was old hat before the invention of the smartphone.

I'm not forgetting anything. You seem to have forgotten how great of a coach Hitch is.

The Blues had missed the playoffs in 2010 and 2011 when he was hired following their 6-7 start to the 2011-'12 season. During his time coaching in St. Louis only the Penguins had a better record and, thanks to Doug Armstrong, he never once had the benefit of coaching teams that were built properly to win the Stanley Cup with.

The only time one of his Blues teams lost in the playoffs to a team that wasn't built better than his was in 2015 when they lost to the Minnesota Wild in the first round in six games.

But he coached his team past Quenneville's defending Stanley Cup Champions in the playoffs the next year.

In the eight seasons Scotty Bowman was the general manager of the Buffalo Sabres, which included four seasons and parts of three others he was also the head coach, they never played in a Stanley Cup Final and missed the playoffs in 1986 and 1987 when there were only 21 teams in the league and 16 made the playoffs.

Did that mean he wasn't a great coach anymore or that his style was old hat? Or was he just not a good general manager in his first attempt at being one?

If his lack of success with the Sabres was a result of him no longer being a great head coach, how did he win the Stanley Cup as a head coach with the Penguins and three more with the Red Wings after his time in Buffalo?

All of that "success" means nothing.

Number of total cup rings as a head coach:

Hitchcock 1 Quenneville 3

Number of cup rings in this millenium:

Hitchcock 0 Quenneville 3

Quenneville is the better coach in this era.

Hitch's success means nothing to you because he hasn't won the Stanley Cup with teams that weren't properly built to win it.

But Scotty Bowman couldn't do that and neither could Quenneville or any other coach.

Quenneville's had better teams to coach in this era than Hitch has and Hitch knocked him out of the playoffs two years ago when Quenneville was coaching the defending Stanley Cup Champions and wasn't missing any of his players.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:42 pm

My point stands. Ken Hitchcock hasn't won anything in this millennium. Not a single thing. Quenneville is the better coach in this era because he has 3 cup rings in that era to Hitch's zero.
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:05 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:My point stands. Ken Hitchcock hasn't won anything in this millennium. Not a single thing. Quenneville is the better coach in this era because he has 3 cup rings in that era to Hitch's zero.

Your point is meaningless with regard to this discussion, though, because Stanley Cups are won by organizations, not just head coaches.

From the time Hitch was hired in St. Louis he has a better regular season record than Quenneville does having coached teams that weren't built as well as the ones Quenneville had in Chicago and beat him in the playoffs two years ago when Quenneville had the better built team. A defending Stanley Cup Champion, as a matter of fact.

Quenneville's top center was 27-year-old Jonathan Toews, who scored 28 goals and 58 points in 80 games that season and had already won a Conn Smythe Trophy while scoring 39 goals and 102 points in 117 playoff games.

Hitch coached the Blues to a win in that series with Jori Lehtera centering his top line with Jaden Schwartz and Vladimir Tarasenko after Lehtera had scored 9 goals and 34 points in 79 games that season.

And also won with Brian Elliott as his goaltender after Jake Allen started more games (44 to 38) during the regular season while Quenneville had Corey Crawford.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:16 am

:WORDS
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:29 am

I only care about what Hitch has done coaching the Stars this season, and it hasn’t been impressive.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:40 am

Troy McClure wrote:I only care about what Hitch has done coaching the Stars this season, and it hasn’t been impressive.


This! A thousand times, this!
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby Jason » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:27 pm



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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:35 pm

Paywall...MVP McClure transcript?
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Re: 2018 Stars Offseason Thread

Postby slaps » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:25 pm

I gave The Athletic a try. It’s worth the $6 a month. Lots of really good hockey coverage.

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