The Ken Hitchcock Circle of Life is Complete -- no, I don't mean he's dead

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ToddM
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby ToddM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:49 am

wonko80 wrote:Yeah, I still can't believe Ritchie is on the top line. But really, I think he's there because they don't have the depth so who else do they put there?


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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby B Kat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:11 pm

We have a top line, it's a true second line that we don't have this season with Spezza fail. That's why Hitchcock is spreading out that talent.

Given what we had this season, Hitchcock has tried a lot of combinations. At the end of the day, we have Benn, Seguin and Rads scoring, and not much else. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

FWIW, I hate that Ritchie is on the top line and the 1st PP unit.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:57 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:That's a fair point. I don't think Hitch has been perfect, but there are systemic issues that have been with the Stars for a decade now, even through the rebrand.

I agree. Fire ALL of the scouts. Every last one of them.

No coach is perfect. The only thing Scotty Bowman won was a division title in the first of four seasons and parts of three others he spent coaching the Buffalo Sabres in the 1980s and he was the general manager of those teams, two of which missed the playoffs at a time when there were 21 teams in the league and 16 made the playoffs.

But the one thing you know about Hitch is that he's one of the handful of greatest coaches to ever coach in this league and he's made every team he's coached significantly better than it was when he got there, including this one.

If Stars fans think what they're seeing now is bad, imagine what it would look like with a coach who doesn't know what the *f-bomb* he's doing in charge.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Jason » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:30 pm

If the coach has no patience to let the young players play and develop, then the Stars will never be good. They will be stuck in mediocrity until that happens.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Troy McClure » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:48 pm

wonko80 wrote:Yeah, I still can't believe Ritchie is on the top line. But really, I think he's there because they don't have the depth so who else do they put there?

I'd point to Dickinson. They invested a nice pick and years of development in him. He was drafted for his offensive ability. Let's see what he's got.

I've seen nothing special yet from him, but I've been thinking that about Ritchie for two seasons. What's there to lose?
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:48 pm

Jason wrote:If the coach has no patience to let the young players play and develop, then the Stars will never be good. They will be stuck in mediocrity until that happens.

And the greatest coach in the universe can't make chicken salad out of chicken *poo poo*.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby ScubaSteve » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:50 pm

#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:That's a fair point. I don't think Hitch has been perfect, but there are systemic issues that have been with the Stars for a decade now, even through the rebrand.

I agree. Fire ALL of the scouts. Every last one of them.

No coach is perfect. The only thing Scotty Bowman won was a division title in the first of four seasons and parts of three others he spent coaching the Buffalo Sabres in the 1980s and he was the general manager of those teams, two of which missed the playoffs at a time when there were 21 teams in the league and 16 made the playoffs.

But the one thing you know about Hitch is that he's one of the handful of greatest coaches to ever coach in this league and he's made every team he's coached significantly better than it was when he got there, including this one.

If Stars fans think what they're seeing now is bad, imagine what it would look like with a coach who doesn't know what the *f-bomb* he's doing in charge.


This sounds a lot like "If the Cowboys are this bad now, imagine how bad they'd be WITHOUT Romo?" I think I'm starting to crack your modus operandi.
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Troy McClure » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:06 pm

#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
Jason wrote:If the coach has no patience to let the young players play and develop, then the Stars will never be good. They will be stuck in mediocrity until that happens.

And the greatest coach in the universe can't make chicken salad out of chicken *poo poo*.

And this coach is barely getting better results than Ruff did last season. Ruff never coached this chicken *poo poo* to seven straight losses.
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Jason » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:26 pm

#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
Jason wrote:If the coach has no patience to let the young players play and develop, then the Stars will never be good. They will be stuck in mediocrity until that happens.

And the greatest coach in the universe can't make chicken salad out of chicken *poo poo*.


Any modern coach would have this team in a playoff spot. Hitchcock's system has helped the team's defense, but it has hurt the team. Roussel for example use to draw penalties, since he would forecheck aggressively, well they don't do that anymore. Have to play it safe, when safe is death. The team's offense would be better if they played faster, more aggressive and played the best players for puck possession. The modern defenseman has to be able to move the puck consistently out of their own zone, so the Stars do the opposite. Play it like it's late 90s.
The game is built on speed, passing, puck possession, playing young players. Not playing it safe, slow, big players, veterans.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:48 pm

Jason wrote:
#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
Jason wrote:If the coach has no patience to let the young players play and develop, then the Stars will never be good. They will be stuck in mediocrity until that happens.

And the greatest coach in the universe can't make chicken salad out of chicken *poo poo*.

Any modern coach would have this team in a playoff spot. Hitchcock's system has helped the team's defense, but it has hurt the team. Roussel for example use to draw penalties, since he would forecheck aggressively, well they don't do that anymore. Have to play it safe, when safe is death. The team's offense would be better if they played faster, more aggressive and played the best players for puck possession. The modern defenseman has to be able to move the puck consistently out of their own zone, so the Stars do the opposite. Play it like it's late 90s.
The game is built on speed, passing, puck possession, playing young players. Not playing it safe, slow, big players, veterans.

Bullshit.

When this version of the Stars was at its best two years ago they got beat by Hitch's Blues, who were far from a great team themselves.

What is Tom Gaglardi's track record for success as an NHL owner?

What is Jim Nill's track record for success as an NHL general manager?

What is the track record for success of the people responsible for the Stars' drafting and development over the last decade?

Hitch is going to the Hall of Fame when he's finished coaching because he's made every NHL team he's coached significantly better than they were before he arrived, including this one.

I wish you luck in finding a better coach than he is when his time here is up.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby ToddM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:49 pm

Hitch/Tip/Trotz hockey is good for regular season wins. But there's a reason why Hitch hasn't gotten to the Cup Finals in 17 years, with five different teams... including four 1st overall and five 2nd overall teams. That's why his teams are 22-35 in the playoffs since 2005, including a ten year stretch where he won all of one playoff series. That style just isn't conducive to beating "good" teams, or winning at crucial moments. But it sure works against the Coyotes and Sabres, so... more power to him, I guess.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby BigAl » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:10 pm

I agree with whichever opinion irritates the most people.
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby ScubaSteve » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:13 pm

BigAl wrote:I agree with whichever opinion irritates the most people.


I disagree
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:16 pm

ToddM wrote:Hitch/Tip/Trotz hockey is good for regular season wins. But there's a reason why Hitch hasn't gotten to the Cup Finals in 17 years, with five different teams... including four 1st overall and five 2nd overall teams. That's why his teams are 22-35 in the playoffs since 2005, including a ten year stretch where he won all of one playoff series. That style just isn't conducive to beating "good" teams, or winning at crucial moments.

More bullshit, at least as it pertains to Hitch who is going to the Hall of Fame.

The only teams Hitch has coached that were built well enough to win the Stanley Cup were the Stars teams that he nearly won consecutive Cups with.

During his time in Philadelphia, Columbus and St. Louis the only time his teams lost in the playoffs to a team that wasn't built better than his was in 2015 when the Blues lost to the Minnesota Wild in six games.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby ScubaSteve » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:01 pm

Hitch is the Justified of coaches.
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Jason » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:29 pm

#JTONTFJTGM wrote:Bullshit.

When this version of the Stars was at its best two years ago they got beat by Hitch's Blues, who were far from a great team themselves.

What is Tom Gaglardi's track record for success as an NHL owner?

What is Jim Nill's track record for success as an NHL general manager?

What is the track record for success of the people responsible for the Stars' drafting and development over the last decade?

Hitch is going to the Hall of Fame when he's finished coaching because he's made every NHL team he's coached significantly better than they were before he arrived, including this one.

I wish you luck in finding a better coach than he is when his time here is up.


Yeah a flawed Stars team, who overachieved the first two months, then was mediocre from Christmas until the rest of the regular season. For the playoffs a team without it's best player and two Finnish sieves in net.
What this team has did since then was become slower, bigger (more like the Blues from 15-16) and the lineup decisions go against what other top teams are going for (see younger, faster, skilled players). The Stars went from being the fastest team in the league, to a team who struggles against teams with speed. The Stars are slow, less skilled, majority of the team can't pass. When they can't move the puck out of their own consistently, how can they go try to score?
The Stars do have some younger players who can help out, but when they play such a limited role, yo-yo ed in and out of the lineup, they can't help out. That's on the coaching for not playing them, and trying to force his system onto a team where it doesn't fit.
There is no reason this team should be missing the playoffs. It has nothing to do with the lack of a trade at the deadline.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby SaintAngerBH » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:46 pm

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle. Really, this is a multifactorial issue. Hitch has been a problem. But, so has basically everything else systemically.
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Jason » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:08 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:The truth always lies somewhere in the middle. Really, this is a multifactorial issue. Hitch has been a problem. But, so has basically everything else systemically.


Overall they have issues, but the drafting issues are player development.
It's more they don't play the players they draft in the first place, they just waste the players value then eventually waive or trade them for nothing.
It's going to keep happening until they actually do something to stop it. Guryanov doesn't even get consistent top six minutes in the AHL. Which is ridiculous.

Honka is the team's second best defenseman at moving the puck out of his own zone, so that's why he barely gets to play, or sits. Which it isn't a surprise even if his limited time the team has success (which he needs consistent 2nd pairing minutes, not Pateryn), it's not all about putting up offense, things as simple as getting the puck of the team's own zone on another teammates stick helps produce offense, where as if you have to clear it off the glass, and the other team gets possession in the neutral zone or it's own end that is not helping.
It hurts the teams transition game, when you have to just get off on a change if you can, and the other team has possession of the puck, you can't use your speed to go attack and produce offense.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Troy McClure » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:42 pm

Hitch coaching the Blues to victory over the Stars two years ago has nothing to do with the job he did as coach for the Stars this season. This season, Hitch coached the Stars to missing the playoffs.
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby ToddM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:04 pm

Troy McClure wrote:Hitch coaching the Blues to victory over the Stars two years ago has nothing to do with the job he did as coach for the Stars this season. This season, Hitch coached the Stars to missing the playoffs.


That Stars team also was missing Seguin. And Dallas still drew it out to 7 games.

I don't think anyone thinks Hitch "sucks" as a coach. But it's pretty obvious the game has passed him by, and did, like, over ten years ago. He's coasting into the HoF based on a three-year stretch of hockey 20 years ago + longevity.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby wonko80 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:57 pm

I don't totally blame Hitchcock, but I don't think he should stay the coach either. Also, I'm not sure I care so much what he's done over his career. I care what he did this season, which was not enough to actually make the team better than it was last season. Plus the same Hitchcock methods of not playing young players, uninspiring offense, etc. Things I was nervous about when they made the hire.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Troy McClure » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:01 pm

Eight straight losses. Worst run in Dallas Stars history.
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby ToddM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:18 pm

..so far.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby SaintAngerBH » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:08 pm

Is it bad enough that they will seriously consider firing Nill now?
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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:47 pm

SaintAngerBH wrote:Is it bad enough that they will seriously consider firing Nill now?

If they lose their remaining six games they will end the season with a 14-game losing streak and would still exceed last season's win total by four and points total by at least five.

In Nill's second season they couldn't make the playoffs despite having two of the league's top seven scorers with one of them being its leading scorer.

That's pretty remarkable work.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby #JTONTFJTGM » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:04 am

Jason wrote:
#JTONTFJTGM wrote:Bullshit.

When this version of the Stars was at its best two years ago they got beat by Hitch's Blues, who were far from a great team themselves.

What is Tom Gaglardi's track record for success as an NHL owner?

What is Jim Nill's track record for success as an NHL general manager?

What is the track record for success of the people responsible for the Stars' drafting and development over the last decade?

Hitch is going to the Hall of Fame when he's finished coaching because he's made every NHL team he's coached significantly better than they were before he arrived, including this one.

I wish you luck in finding a better coach than he is when his time here is up.

Yeah a flawed Stars team, who overachieved the first two months, then was mediocre from Christmas until the rest of the regular season. For the playoffs a team without it's best player and two Finnish sieves in net.

Before Hitch coached his own flawed team past the Stars in the playoffs two years ago he also coached them past the defending Stanley Cup Champions who weren't missing any of their players and had Corey Crawford in net.

In the series against the Stars the only Blues win that was even close was Game 2 and the Stars' best player that season was Jamie Benn (41 goals, 89 points, +7 in 82 games), not Tyler Seguin (33 goals, 73 points, +2 in 72 games).

Seguin scored one goal, three points and was -1 in the five games he played against the Blues that season.

What makes you think he would've done any better had he played in the series? His brilliant postseason résumé which consists of 7 goals and 21 points in 49 games?

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby slaps » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:16 am

#JTONTFJTGM wrote:
SaintAngerBH wrote:Is it bad enough that they will seriously consider firing Nill now?

If they lose their remaining six games they will end the season with a 14-game losing streak and would still exceed last season's win total by four and points total by at least five.

In Nill's second season they couldn't make the playoffs despite having two of the league's top seven scorers with one of them being its leading scorer.

That's pretty remarkable work.


Last season we finished 6th in the Central and 24th in the league. As of now we are, 6th in the Central and 18th in the league, but with time to spare to work our way down a few spots.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:40 am

And in the last 36 days, the Stars have played 18 games. They won four of them. The goal differential also went from +25 to +7.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby B Kat » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:04 am

Yeah, that was the start of it. We had a five game points streak going before that. Coaching, players, injuries, leadership or lack thereof, it's gotta be many things that contributed to a downfall that severe, not just Hitch.

The thing I keep seeing is that when the Stars are in a place where they need to amp it up or buckle down, they just fall apart.

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Re: Ken Hitchcock hired to coach the Stars

Postby slaps » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:10 am

My biggest problem is that Hitch keeps rolling out the same dump and chase crap that hasn't worked, and the same basic lines. If you've lost 8 in a row, maybe try something different?

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