2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

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BigAl
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby BigAl » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:46 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:What hockey grapevine exists that the Hardline would be getting info from?

Www.thestarsfans.com

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ToddM
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:51 pm

Troy McClure wrote:The guys on the Hardline said they have heard through the sports grapevine that the Stars players don't like Ruff, don't like playing for Ruff, and have stopped playing for him.

Pretty damning words from guys who have Ruff on their show every week and generally have nothing to say about the Stars. But it's not surprising given what we see when watching the games.


In related news, Ruff just signed a four-year extension with the Dallas Stars.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Jason » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:29 pm


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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:57 pm

That's fine. Rest up for next season.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:55 pm

Jason Spezza has been doubtful since he became a Star.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:53 am

So the Avalanche have let in the most goals this season with 234.
Second place belongs to Dallas ... with 233 goals.
Colorado will at least be getting the 1st pick though ...
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:46 pm

Knives Out wrote:Colorado will at least be getting the 1st pick though ...


No guarantee of that. All of the top three picks are in the lottery now.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:33 pm

Shirtless bet they get the 1st pick, Todd.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:46 pm

No way the Oilers don't get the #1 pick. It has been foretold.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:06 pm

Well. We all know which team ISN'T getting the first pick.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:30 pm

Julius plays with his food.

I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:44 pm

SHOOT!

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:35 pm

Down Goes Brown made his list of the 10 most disappointing NHL teams this season (Florida was #1):

#2: Dallas Stars

The expectations: The playoffs, for sure. Another division title, quite possibly. A trip to the final, or even a Stanley Cup championship? They'd have as good a shot as anyone.

But then: No team on this list had a bigger fall from their pre-season expectations than the Stars; some of us were picking them as the Western favourite. Instead, they flamed out almost immediately. They won't just miss the playoffs — they'll have never really been all that close.

Maybe next year: Jim Nill will be under plenty of pressure to address the goaltending, and rightly so. But the blueline may be an even bigger problem, and that won't be an easy fix. They still have the talent up front to score with anyone in the league, so a return to the playoffs seems realistic. But after a season where they seemed like Cup contenders, just limping back into the post-season isn't much to get excited about.


He was our biggest supporter last season too.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby SaintAngerBH » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:39 pm

This has been the most infuriating season in my over 20 years of being a Stars fan. It was preventable and is inexcusable in my opinion.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:48 pm

Can't even make #1 on that list.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:00 pm

I disagree with the national media narrative that it was all the fault of our goaltending and defense. Those were equally as shitty last season!! (Maybe even moreso!) Our non-Seguin forwards and PK were the real difference between #1 overall in the West last season to #15. When all is said and done, Benn playing thru hus injury and Spezza regressing from an outlier year did us in. Not the rookies on D, who were just replacing some pretty mediocre d-men anyways, nor the goalies, who stayed the same.

Lazy *fargin'* narratives, man.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:08 pm

I was as wrong as anybody about the depth that we lost, as well. Fiddler and Sceviour and those spares that weren't brought back, I assumed they were interchangeable and replaceable and it didn't really matter what warm bodies you plugged in there. Turns out Mckenzie, Ritchie, Cracknell, etc are all demonstrably worse. And I thought the loss of Janmark wouldn't be a back breaker. And certainly Hudler would be an upgrade over Val. And certainly Sharp would get to double digit goals. Faksa and Shore have been nice, but aren't really proving to be impact players. You went from having three threatening scoring lines to less than one.

Overall the forward group has been a huge problem this year.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Jason » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:12 pm

While the forward depth took a step back, the reason for this team missing the playoffs is all on the awful coaching.
Injuries hurt the forward depth, but there's awful coaching decisions such as playing Eakin so many minutes, moving Seguin to wing for long stretches. The team's lack of a structure defensively, so with the injuries they can't outscore the flaws in the system, like they did last season. With the system they employ the PK it's easy for the players to over commit and take themselves out of position, especially the forwards, the PK has gotten better since they've traded Jordie Benn, but it's still bad. It won't be completely fixed, until they change to a new scheme.
The PP issues, the team's problems at even strength are only defensvie zone structure, which a competent coach would fix that.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:17 pm

It's a bunch of stuff. Goaltending has let us down at times, but I agree with Todd, it's been better this season. Injuries, losing Fiddler, & Demers. Klingberg having brain far syndrome to start the season. Then depression from doing so poorly set in. Also we lost a lot of close games. Member all those OT losses? Well we had to be close to get to OT.

Whatever. Next year is a new year. Hopefully better health, better goaltending and coaches.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:20 pm

How many games did the historically bad PK cost the Stars? That does fall on goaltending and defense.

Even if the forward group was identical to last season, I still think this team fares far worse thanks to the massive downgrade on defense.

Maybe it all comes down to coaching. Considering 80% of the defenders will be back next season, I hope to god coaching was the sole problem. Hey, I'd love to see a new coach step in and turn this pile of mid-20s "prospects" into the quality players we have all been promised.

That said, if we find out a simple coaching change was all the team needed to improve its weakest areas, my displeasure with Nill/Gaglardi will only grow when I wonder why they rode out an entire year of freaking terrible coaching for no justifiable reason.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:40 pm

Also, they definitely overachieved last season. They were due to regress a little, but they should've still been an easy playoff team.
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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:31 pm

Troy McClure wrote:the massive downgrade on defense.


Dude, it's not like we were rolling Shea Weber back there last year. Demers was serviceable until the playoffs, and Goligoski was... "inconsistent," or "occasionally good," or "maddening," or "capable of the single worst defensive play in NHL history." Russell was addition by subtraction. Hamhuis is easily better than any of those three just by himself.

However, going back to coaching, yeah: there's no way a real head coach puts Jordie on the PP, or keeps him as our #1 d-man on the PK. I kindof suspect that the entire reason Nill traded him was just to stop Ruff from playing him so much. Also: not playing Honka, when he clearly makes the team instantly better. Or scratching Johns and Oleksiak after they make one bad play that Oduya (who also absolutely dropped off a cliff) makes every fourth shift. Lindell is a huge drag on Klingberg in the d-zone, yet has weirdly been granted the #2 spot right out of the AHL. And so on.

Talent-wise (and scoring-wise, by a LONG shot), this year's defense is better than last year's. Even with all the rookies. Our goaltending dropped one entire percentage point from last season, which is to say, they gave up one more goal per 100 shots than they did last season. So, one extra goal against every three or so games is not going to murderkill your entire season.

Really, the drop is almost 95% on the forwards.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Jason » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:35 pm

Troy McClure wrote:How many games did the historically bad PK cost the Stars? That does fall on goaltending and defense.

Even if the forward group was identical to last season, I still think this team fares far worse thanks to the massive downgrade on defense.

Maybe it all comes down to coaching. Considering 80% of the defenders will be back next season, I hope to god coaching was the sole problem. Hey, I'd love to see a new coach step in and turn this pile of mid-20s "prospects" into the quality players we have all been promised.

That said, if we find out a simple coaching change was all the team needed to improve its weakest areas, my displeasure with Nill/Gaglardi will only grow when I wonder why they rode out an entire year of freaking terrible coaching for no justifiable reason.


The team loves to chase around in the defensive zone, as they have for years. It's easy to draw forwards out of position on the PK, which leaves the defense and goaltending hung out to dry. That's not to say they're also not to blame.
Even when there's 5 players in their own zone, there are still players wide open in the slot or in front of the net so often, if it was last season or this season.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:12 pm

ToddM wrote:
Troy McClure wrote:the massive downgrade on defense.


Dude, it's not like we were rolling Shea Weber back there last year. Demers was serviceable until the playoffs, and Goligoski was... "inconsistent," or "occasionally good," or "maddening," or "capable of the single worst defensive play in NHL history." Russell was addition by subtraction. Hamhuis is easily better than any of those three just by himself.

However, going back to coaching, yeah: there's no way a real head coach puts Jordie on the PP, or keeps him as our #1 d-man on the PK. I kindof suspect that the entire reason Nill traded him was just to stop Ruff from playing him so much. Also: not playing Honka, when he clearly makes the team instantly better. Or scratching Johns and Oleksiak after they make one bad play that Oduya (who also absolutely dropped off a cliff) makes every fourth shift. Lindell is a huge drag on Klingberg in the d-zone, yet has weirdly been granted the #2 spot right out of the AHL. And so on.

Talent-wise (and scoring-wise, by a LONG shot), this year's defense is better than last year's. Even with all the rookies. Our goaltending dropped one entire percentage point from last season, which is to say, they gave up one more goal per 100 shots than they did last season. So, one extra goal against every three or so games is not going to murderkill your entire season.

Really, the drop is almost 95% on the forwards.


Yeah, Demers and Goligoski had plenty of flaws, but they were very good at moving the puck. Much better than their replacements. So even if the kids coming in are a bit better at defending (maybe), they certainly aren't better at the offending, not when you talk in terms of moving the puck out of the defensive zone, moving it through the neutral zone, or keeping it in the o-zone. The guys lost weren't Ray Bourque, but they did do one thing well. It turns out that one thing was the straw that stirred the drink.

I know you want to say the defenders are better, but that can't be true. What I don't buy about this is the coaching didn't change. Same coaches from top to bottom. Same wild ass system. If the individual defenders are better but the coaching is the same, how could the results be this much worse?
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:16 pm

Jason wrote:The team loves to chase around in the defensive zone, as they have for years. It's easy to draw forwards out of position on the PK, which leaves the defense and goaltending hung out to dry. That's not to say they're also not to blame.
Even when there's 5 players in their own zone, there are still players wide open in the slot or in front of the net so often, if it was last season or this season.


I totally can't understand the way the PK forwards end up stacked on top of each other both trying to block the same shooting lane so often.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:12 pm

Troy McClure wrote:I know you want to say the defenders are better, but that can't be true.


According to EA's NHL 17, Goligoski rates an 86, while Hamhuis rates an 85. Not much of a dropoff there. Demers is an 84, Russell an 83. Johns only got a 79, so I guess he really does suck compared to those guys.

Kevin Connauton rates an 83, however... just a point better than Jordie. Big-time missed opportunity there.

Also, Dubnyk and Kari both got an 86, so you can't pin the blame on the goalies on this one.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:53 am

The Stars are shitty and our goaltenders are at the bottom of the league. That can't be a coincidence, no matter how much Todd tries to defend them.

But I also think Jason is right - the coaching is *poo poo* from the bottom up. I hope they clean house (I'm looking at you, Mike Valley) and start fresh.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:55 am

ToddM wrote: Our goaltending dropped one entire percentage point from last season, which is to say, they gave up one more goal per 100 shots than they did last season. So, one extra goal against every three or so games is not going to murderkill your entire season.

If that was really true, our Goals Against per game wouldn't have gone from 2.78 last season to 3.22. An extra goal every three games would mean their Goals Against per game should be 3.11. So something else did in fact change in the goaltending as well, which I think we can all use the test of actually watching the games to see.

But to me (and others have already said this), the real problem is the offense hasn't been propping up the average at best defending and below average at best goaltending. Our Goals For per game has dropped from 3.23 to 2.72. So even if our defense was the same as last year, our offense would still have us in a hole. Whether that offense was generated from better breakout passes (I'm sure some of it actually was) or them just being better at controlling it in the offensive zone, the result is the same. To me, the defense in the zone doesn't honestly look any worse than it did last year. It's just that when the other team scores a goal, I know we are way less likely to be able to get it back and outscore the other team, so the goal allowed is more demoralizing.

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:35 am

wonko80 wrote:Our Goals For per game has dropped from 3.23 to 2.72. So even if our defense was the same as last year, our offense would still have us in a hole.


Spezza going from 33 goals to 12 is most of that drop.

However, from his career:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... zja01.html

...it looks like Spezza has one amazing year, then takes the next one off, then has a great year, then mails it in again. So next season we should be good again!

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Re: 2016-2017 Stars Season Thread

Postby Knives Out » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:30 am

SaintAngerBH wrote:This has been the most infuriating season in my over 20 years of being a Stars fan. It was preventable and is inexcusable in my opinion.
ScubaSteve wrote:Cody is the Glass Fatso we need. Kari is the Glass Fatso we deserve.

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