GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby atticus ross » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:52 pm

FrozenFailure wrote:
The Frugal Gourmet wrote:And whom will we get back for Jamie Benn?


Brad Richards. :Winky:

My money (which is actually Roy's money) is on Niskanen.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Jason » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:53 pm

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:Also, Nill actually has no clue about any of this. I bet the average fan knows more about the Stars right now than he does. He just got the job and hasn't cared a lick about the organization until now.

Get used to vague platitudes for the next few months.


Nill is very aware of a lot of the prospects the Stars. Red Wings scouts had their own reports on a lot of the Stars draft picks in recent years to. Not only that teams still keep a eye on the players from the draft years that they liked which they didn't draft, in case they're available for trade in the future.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:59 pm

I'm sure Nil knows a lot about the Stars d-men on the farm and who just made the team, but his view of them is going to be limited to his observations made while in juniors or in the minor leagues. Knowledge that is probably pretty stale. Once the draft happens, I can't imagine he's keeping close tabs on guys playing in other teams' systems. Did he watch every Wings game, or has he been more focused on the farm system?

I also agree with Jason that he's probably also lumping in the 400 d prospects when he says that.
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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:59 pm

Jason wrote:Nill is very aware of a lot of the prospects the Stars. Red Wings scouts had their own reports on a lot of the Stars draft picks in recent years to. Not only that teams still keep a eye on the players from the draft years that they liked which they didn't draft, in case they're available for trade in the future.


Of course. I'm sure he's already aware of lots of guys. And there's lots of things that have transpired he's probably unaware of. Making his opinion one basically of ignorance, all the same. It's not really even his job to know prospects at this point. It's his job to know people who know prospects. And put them into place & utilize them and all that good stuff. I care more about him knowing the right guy to know about Faksa than knowing himself if Faksa is the right guy.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Jason » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:09 pm

Troy McClure wrote:I'm sure Nil knows a lot about the Stars d-men on the farm and who just made the team, but his view of them is going to be limited to his observations made while in juniors or in the minor leagues. Knowledge that is probably pretty stale. Once the draft happens, I can't imagine he's keeping close tabs on guys playing in other teams' systems. Did he watch every Wings game, or has he been more focused on the farm system?

I also agree with Jason that he's probably also lumping in the 400 d prospects when he says that.


For example the Stars noted Joe Morrow as someone if he was ever available in a trade, they'd try to acquire him, Cody Eakin was another one. While Nill may not have watched the players that much after they were drafted, he still received scouting reports on those players from the area scouts. So he's aware of how the prospects are progressing even if it's not as important.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby CycloneGU » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:47 pm

BigAl wrote:Is there a way to send him an invite to register here, so he'll have some reliable input on how to run a franchise?

I dunno. Based on the opinions here, he'd advise Lites to sell the team for salvage to Alaska.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby ToddM » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:24 pm

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:
Jason wrote:Nill is very aware of a lot of the prospects the Stars. Red Wings scouts had their own reports on a lot of the Stars draft picks in recent years to. Not only that teams still keep a eye on the players from the draft years that they liked which they didn't draft, in case they're available for trade in the future.


Of course. I'm sure he's already aware of lots of guys. And there's lots of things that have transpired he's probably unaware of. Making his opinion one basically of ignorance, all the same. It's not really even his job to know prospects at this point. It's his job to know people who know prospects. And put them into place & utilize them and all that good stuff. I care more about him knowing the right guy to know about Faksa than knowing himself if Faksa is the right guy.


Considering that he turned down Montreal but expressed interest here, I'd wager he knows quite a bit about our team and prospect system. He's got a ton of high picks and quality prospects to play around with if he wants to go the trade route. Newy set the table, all Nill has to do is eat.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:29 pm

ToddM wrote:Considering that he turned down Montreal but expressed interest here, I'd wager he knows quite a bit about our team and prospect system. He's got a ton of high picks and quality prospects to play around with if he wants to go the trade route. Newy set the table, all Nill has to do is eat.


You are so positive. I like that.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby starsfan18 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:30 pm

ToddM wrote:
The Frugal Gourmet wrote:
Jason wrote:Nill is very aware of a lot of the prospects the Stars. Red Wings scouts had their own reports on a lot of the Stars draft picks in recent years to. Not only that teams still keep a eye on the players from the draft years that they liked which they didn't draft, in case they're available for trade in the future.


Of course. I'm sure he's already aware of lots of guys. And there's lots of things that have transpired he's probably unaware of. Making his opinion one basically of ignorance, all the same. It's not really even his job to know prospects at this point. It's his job to know people who know prospects. And put them into place & utilize them and all that good stuff. I care more about him knowing the right guy to know about Faksa than knowing himself if Faksa is the right guy.


Considering that he turned down Montreal but expressed interest here, I'd wager he knows quite a bit about our team and prospect system. He's got a ton of high picks and quality prospects to play around with if he wants to go the trade route. Newy set the table, all Nill has to do is eat.


Yes, but who cooked?

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:32 pm

Let's hope the food wasn't poisoned.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby starsfan18 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:35 pm

The food contains potassium benzoate.







That's bad.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby CycloneGU » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:57 pm

starsfan18 wrote:The food contains potassium benzoate.

He will become one of us!

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby slaps » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:44 pm

Interesting that it only took a couple of weeks to contact, woo, and hire Nill.

Also amusing is T. Gags's inference that GM Joe did not have the skills or the drive to be an effective GM.

And Jim Lites looks like Steve Martin.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby slaps » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:15 am

Also, I have yet to see one article or anything that says anything other than what an awesome hire this is for Dallas.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Dat1guy » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:30 am

I was curious, so I went to check and see if Ken Holland's brother, Dennis, is still a scout for the Stars and he still is. Interestingly enough, though, Steve Ott's old man, Butch, is no longer a scout for the organ-I-zation. It's probably been that way for awhile, though.

:gulp

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby slaps » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:37 am

One thing I found interesting was that someone said to expect the Stars to spend way more on scouting and scouting in Europe now.

Does that mean they've been not spending money on scouting?

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:41 am

Bankruptcy, yo. Cellphone video clips on YouTube are a lot cheaper than flying to Russia.
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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Dat1guy » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:43 am

slaps wrote:One thing I found interesting was that someone said to expect the Stars to spend way more on scouting and scouting in Europe now.

Does that mean they've been not spending money on scouting?


Well, Detroit's recent history has been pretty Swedish-centric (unlike how heavily they went after Russians previously) but there's no indication that Nill will keep going back to that well. We'll see.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby CycloneGU » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:59 am

ScubaSteve wrote:Bankruptcy, yo. Cellphone video clips on YouTube are a lot cheaper than flying to Russia.

This. Why go in person when you can watch video? It's the same thing, you just can't - you know - meet the guy.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby ToddM » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:48 am

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:
ToddM wrote:Considering that he turned down Montreal but expressed interest here, I'd wager he knows quite a bit about our team and prospect system. He's got a ton of high picks and quality prospects to play around with if he wants to go the trade route. Newy set the table, all Nill has to do is eat.


You are so positive. I like that.


Why wouldn't I be? There's a lot to like on this Stars team and where it's headed. Newy did a damn fine job on drafting and development, and didn't do the "I'm about to get fired" GM thing of rushing guys or trading our tops prospects for Martin Erat to save his job. He gets a lot of *poo poo* here for not drafting The Next Crosby, but neither did his replacement: Gustav Nyquist was on the short list of Calder finalists before the season began, and ended up being outscored by Reilly Smith.

The fact that not one single article refrains from lavishing huge praise on Nill is reason enough for me to worry. That's usually a sign that no one is doing any form of critical thinking, and are just aping everyone else out of sheer journalistic laziness.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Jason » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:27 am

Don't think this was posted.
The Dallas Stars' hiring of Jim Nill as their new general manager is the managerial equivalent of landing the best player available in the free agent marketplace.

But don't undersell Nill's ability to guide a team on a day-to-day basis. Holland has always leaned on his cabinet of advisers before he made his major decisions and Nill has always been a key member of that cabinet. He's been in Detroit's war room for every decision made over the past 15 years. He has lived through every key decision that a GM has to make.

Nill is also a friendly personality, the kind of manager that is needed in Dallas where they have lost fans because of their struggles in recent years. This is a GM who is going to talk to fans when he runs into them on the street. That's just his nature.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:34 am

slaps wrote:Also, I have yet to see one article or anything that says anything other than what an awesome hire this is for Dallas.

95% of the people writing those articles also refer to Detroit as Hockeytown.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:49 am

ToddM wrote:The fact that not one single article refrains from lavishing huge praise on Nill is reason enough for me to worry. That's usually a sign that no one is doing any form of critical thinking, and are just aping everyone else out of sheer journalistic laziness.


Joe Nieuwendyk actually wasn't that bad and I wouldn't have minded seeing him around a little longer to grow into the position.

But Nill was part of an extremely successful organization for 15+ years. He knows some *poo poo*, has connections, has experience, etc.. He'll be fine. I'm not going to put much stock in recent mediocre drafts. Most of our drafts fall into that category. Most of the league's drafts fall into that category. Just part of the game.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby CycloneGU » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:34 am

Troy McClure wrote:
slaps wrote:Also, I have yet to see one article or anything that says anything other than what an awesome hire this is for Dallas.

95% of the people writing those articles also refer to Detroit as Hockeytown.

So do 100% of Detroit fans, statistically.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:36 am

The Frugal Gourmet wrote:
ToddM wrote:The fact that not one single article refrains from lavishing huge praise on Nill is reason enough for me to worry. That's usually a sign that no one is doing any form of critical thinking, and are just aping everyone else out of sheer journalistic laziness.


Joe Nieuwendyk actually wasn't that bad and I wouldn't have minded seeing him around a little longer to grow into the position.


Nieuwendyk was definitely the most successful GM from the 99 Cup team that we've had.
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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:45 am

The last former Cup team member acquired Richards for nothing and saw the team reach the conference finals. He was only fired when he signed a player that his entitled good old boys dressing room didn't like.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:51 am

Troy McClure wrote:The last former Cup team member acquired Richards for nothing and saw the team reach the conference finals. He was only fired when he signed a player that his entitled good old boys dressing room didn't like.


Even if they did like it, though, that was still a terrible signing.

But definitely more accomplished than Joe N. Although, again, why sign someone new to the role and basically give him only like 2 years of real flexibility to turn the team around? That's silly. There's no way he could've been successful in that amount of time without a lot of luck.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:57 am

If it was anyone but Nieuwy in that role, I bet he would have been replaced right when Gaglardi bought the team. Gaglardi probably gave Nieuwy a shot -- an unfair shot but still a shot to show immediate improvement -- all because Gaglardi didn't want to be the new guy rolling into town as an unknown outsider who, right away, canned the team's only Conn Smythe winner and fan favorite.

It's my guess why this played out the way it did.


Edit: Or wait. You're talking about Hull. No answer there.
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I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:58 am

Troy McClure wrote:If it was anyone but Nieuwy in that role, I bet he would have been replaced right when Gaglardi bought the team. Gaglardi probably gave Nieuwy a shot -- an unfair shot but still a shot to show immediate improvement -- all because Gaglardi didn't want to be the new guy rolling into town as an unknown outsider who, right away, canned the team's only Conn Smythe winner and fan favorite.

It's my guess why this played out the way it did.


Yes, I agree. It was pretty interesting that he did not immediately out his own guy in place.

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Re: GM Joe's last rites; a stinking Red Wing to be hired

Postby ScubaSteve » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:59 am

Yeah, that's pretty spot on.
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