2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

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FrozenFailure
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby FrozenFailure » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:27 pm

slaps wrote:https://twitter.com/TomDorsa/status/1313235682920259585?s=20
I think this one is pretty intriguing. Ehlers is good and he's under contract for a while at a reasonable number ($6MM).

Destroying our PK for some offensive depth that doesn't really help the lack of talented centers? Yikes. In a vacuum, good value both ways but why, I guess. If you think Harley can replace the #1 PK d-man in the NHL, yeah sure take it, but I'd rather be out seeking a top 4 RHD who can pick up some of the workload and not look like a trash fire.

wonko80 wrote:Also, Klingberg's game may age fine as he doesn't rely heavily on speed or strength. Just passing, walking the line, and wrist shots.

I think players below a certain level of mobility are a liability in the NHL these days. Especially on Dallas where the mantra is be fast, good, or entertaining. Klingberg's mobility already annoys the hell out of me as well. I mean, he'll be a bottom pair PP guy for a few years and then done.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:44 pm

I love Lindell, but he was on the ice for 16 of Tampa's 18 goals. He's not nearly as consistent as people make him out to be.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:45 pm

FrozenFailure wrote:Destroying our PK for some offensive depth that doesn't really help the lack of talented centers? Yikes. In a vacuum, good value both ways but why, I guess. If you think Harley can replace the #1 PK d-man in the NHL, yeah sure take it, but I'd rather be out seeking a top 4 RHD who can pick up some of the workload and not look like a trash fire.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:46 pm

Our strength is having both Miro and Klingberg. Because we can have one or the other on the ice at all times. It’s what fueled our playoff success.

We need to unload one of Benn (preferably, not likely) or Seguin for cap relief. Not holding my breath.

Otherwise, we’ll have to roll with what we got, which isn’t terrible. And hope to add a little offensive talent, if possible. With a cap crunch, something decent might be available even without having to give up a lot.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:48 pm

Slaps just knows how much Bowness loves Lindell, so get rid of him and Bowness goes.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:53 pm

I like Lindell a lot. I wouldn't want to see him go. But if the Stars have to deal from a position of strength, I think that's (1) defense, and (2) Lindell is the most expendable asset.
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:01 pm

Yeah, Lindell was definitely whelming during the finals and really the whole playoffs. I agree that he is the pick to trade due to his combination of being expendable and of higher value.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby B Kat » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:04 pm

I don’t think we have to deal so much this year because we have a pretty good team and there looks to be more players available either UFA including non qualified RFAs or thru trade that won’t cost a Klingberg or Lindell.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby FrozenFailure » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:07 pm

slaps wrote:
FrozenFailure wrote:Destroying our PK for some offensive depth that doesn't really help the lack of talented centers? Yikes. In a vacuum, good value both ways but why, I guess. If you think Harley can replace the #1 PK d-man in the NHL, yeah sure take it, but I'd rather be out seeking a top 4 RHD who can pick up some of the workload and not look like a trash fire.


That's one series... against the de facto top offensive in the league. When you have 3 other guys and 4 other guys on the ice, and you're the one guy who is put out there to be reliable against them. Yeah I dunno I think the narrative that Lindell sucked against TBL isn't the right one to spin, but I guess it's the easy one to spin.

Oh, and if you want to really make it funnier, he was stapled to Klingberg the whole playoffs, who has a worse oiSV% and a far more negative tk/gv ratio.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:14 pm

wonko80 wrote:Also, Klingberg's game may age fine as he doesn't rely heavily on speed or strength. Just passing, walking the line, and wrist shots.

This would be an interesting thing to think about if Honka had been anything other than *fargin'* terrible. Then the team might have had Klingberg, Honka, and Heiskanen as an abundance of offensive d-men where you could start wheeling and dealing to find forward help. But it didn't work out that way.
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:17 pm

FrozenFailure wrote:That's one series... against the de facto top offensive in the league. When you have 3 other guys and 4 other guys on the ice, and you're the one guy who is put out there to be reliable against them. Yeah I dunno I think the narrative that Lindell sucked against TBL isn't the right one to spin, but I guess it's the easy one to spin.

Oh, and if you want to really make it funnier, he was stapled to Klingberg the whole playoffs, who has a worse oiSV% and a far more negative tk/gv ratio.

Lindell's numbers took a hit against Tampa when they scored something like four goals from deflections off of Lindell. He had some god awful luck.
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Jason » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:29 pm

Jason wrote:Easy to pass on Khudobin at that price.

Not only 3 years but sounds like Khudobin is going to have surgery on his elbow.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby FrozenFailure » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:40 pm

Two years at that price is fine, would do two up to about $4m.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:43 pm

B Kat wrote:I don’t think we have to deal so much this year because we have a pretty good team and there looks to be more players available either UFA including non qualified RFAs or thru trade that won’t cost a Klingberg or Lindell.

The Stars aren't going to sigh any UFAs. They can't even afford all the RFAs they have

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Nill always waits until the last second to announce this kind of thing. I never know what he's gaining by waiting.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:54 pm

He’s probably got a lot going on and announcing that he’s retaining rights to his chattel isn’t a high priority.
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:41 am

I think I figured out why our top scorer got 11 minutes in a elimination game we were losing:

https://public.tableau.com/shared/J5PRK ... share_link

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:48 am

Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but despite his turnovers Klingberg is, stats-wise, the single best puck mover in the NHL:

https://public.tableau.com/shared/BQ76J ... share_link

You can have all sorts of fun on this site. Just click "Dallas" on the right hand side to see basically what we all know from the eyeball test:

https://public.tableau.com/profile/core ... oneEntries

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:11 am

ToddM wrote:I think I figured out why our top scorer got 11 minutes in a elimination game we were losing:

https://public.tableau.com/shared/J5PRK ... share_link

I would not, by the eyeball test, label Gurianov as a neutral zone wizard.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:52 am

wonko80 wrote:
ToddM wrote:I think I figured out why our top scorer got 11 minutes in a elimination game we were losing:

https://public.tableau.com/shared/J5PRK ... share_link

I would not, by the eyeball test, label Gurianov as a neutral zone wizard.

He carries the puck into the offensive zone. Apparently one of the better NHLers at doing that.

I will say that he loses the puck 15 feet later along the boards pretty frequently, because he's alone and there's no teammate to pass to to relieve the inevitable pressure. A real coach might see that and make an adjustment, but I'm not holding my breath that we'll get a real coach anytime soon.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Math » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:58 am

That's because he's too fast. Once he'll realize that ice hockey is not a game of speed and that he should put the breaks on, then we'll make some progress.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:43 am

He’s also especially prone to puck panic. He has a timer in his head for how long he’s comfortable having the puck on his stick. When the bell dings, he’s getting rid of it, too often that means throwing a blind centering pass to the other team’s defense.
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:51 am

ToddM wrote:
wonko80 wrote:
ToddM wrote:I think I figured out why our top scorer got 11 minutes in a elimination game we were losing:

https://public.tableau.com/shared/J5PRK ... share_link

I would not, by the eyeball test, label Gurianov as a neutral zone wizard.

He carries the puck into the offensive zone. Apparently one of the better NHLers at doing that.

I will say that he loses the puck 15 feet later along the boards pretty frequently, because he's alone and there's no teammate to pass to to relieve the inevitable pressure. A real coach might see that and make an adjustment, but I'm not holding my breath that we'll get a real coach anytime soon.

I’ll say this about Guri. He’s one of the players left in the league who will try to take on a defender 1v1 instead of just dumping it in. Like when he gets the puck in the neutral zone and is heading into the offensive zone and there’s a defender in position against you, the choices are dump it down the boards around him or try to take him on and go to goal. 99% of players just stick to the system and chip it in and go change. Gurianov does what confident skill players should do and tries to beat the defender.
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Math » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:59 am

He has the speed and the execution to do it, but still lacks a bit of hands.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:21 am

So long as the coaching staff supports him and doesn't try and beat all creativity out of him, I think he'll figure it out. He completely sucks in the defensive zone, and largely in the neutral zone, but he's awesome in the offensive zone.
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy McClure » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:22 am

No real surprises.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby ToddM » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:23 am

He needs to learn how to do that Faksa-skate-along-the-boards move.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby wonko80 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:43 am

ToddM wrote:He carries the puck into the offensive zone. Apparently one of the better NHLers at doing that.

I will say that he loses the puck 15 feet later along the boards pretty frequently, because he's alone and there's no teammate to pass to to relieve the inevitable pressure. A real coach might see that and make an adjustment, but I'm not holding my breath that we'll get a real coach anytime soon.

Being fast is great if you can beat the guy 1v1. But if you can't and no teammate is with you, all it really does is lead to a turnover. Still better than a dump in, but he needs to be selective about the speed and try carrying it in slower sometimes. What he often does is go in really fast, run out of room and stop on a dime along the boards. Then, with no other options, he'll just fling it around the boards hoping and praying a teammate might have a chance to get to it. They never do.

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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby slaps » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:52 am

I'd strongly prefer we not criticize Stars' players for being fast and going for offensive chances.
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Re: 2020 Stars Off-Season Thread

Postby FrozenFailure » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:57 am

The whole alone in the offensive zone thing is often just a controlled breakout that the opponents sit on. It is literally a broken record with this team. I don't think they really care about controlled breakouts, they want the odd bounce/breakaway for both the entertainment and higher scoring chance. And you're right, the turnover after losing it at the attacking dots leads to a counterpunch which hurts us more often than not.

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