Texas Stars and Prospects Thread

User avatar
Knives Out
Posts: 18435
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: TO via MTL

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Knives Out » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:50 pm

LOL Desrosiers re-signed to a 1-year-2-way.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

User avatar
cdanew
Posts: 4408
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:43 pm

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby cdanew » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:05 pm

Knives Out wrote:LOL Desrosiers re-signed to a 1-year-2-way.


And why is that an lol? No risk, he played decent at his level. Not saying he'll be a NHL regular, but you need people to play at the various levels.

User avatar
Knives Out
Posts: 18435
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: TO via MTL

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Knives Out » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:23 am

Because I had such high hopes for him.
And here he is getting the ol’ 1-year-2-way.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

User avatar
Troy McClure
Posts: 44390
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:37 pm
Location: not Cleveland
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:29 pm

Another Nill draft pick is being put on the slow development track. Jason Robertson will be spending a fourth season in the OHL.

Sorry, Knives.

I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

User avatar
cdanew
Posts: 4408
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:43 pm

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby cdanew » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:23 pm

Troy McClure wrote:Another Nill draft pick is being put on the slow development track. Jason Robertson will be spending a fourth season in the OHL.

Sorry, Knives.


That's a bit unfair. The kid literally turned 19 yesterday. Playing juniors in the OHL is more than likely the right place for him to be. You say "spending a fourth season in the OHL" like it is a bad thing. Look at it the other way - he started playing in the OHL when he was 15. You don't do that unless you have talent. Not saying he's the next McDavid, just that the perspective is a little more nuanced than what you might think.

User avatar
Troy McClure
Posts: 44390
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:37 pm
Location: not Cleveland
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Troy McClure » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:25 pm

We’re havin’ a little fun here, no?
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

User avatar
cdanew
Posts: 4408
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:43 pm

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby cdanew » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:26 pm

Hard to tell here sometimes - my snark-o-meter may be busted.

User avatar
Knives Out
Posts: 18435
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: TO via MTL

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Knives Out » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:45 pm

Hmmm(m).

A 4th year of major junior can be pretty telling sometimes.
Most projected 1st rounders usually make the jump to at least the AHL after 3.

Well, at least he'll still look exactly the same as he does now in a decade when he starts to get 4th line minutes on our garbage team.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

Jason
Posts: 10737
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:09 am

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Jason » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:03 am

Troy McClure wrote:Another Nill draft pick is being put on the slow development track. Jason Robertson will be spending a fourth season in the OHL.

He's not eligible to play in the AHL until the teams junior season is over next spring.
So only options are NHL roster, Europe or back to OHL.

User avatar
Knives Out
Posts: 18435
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: TO via MTL

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Knives Out » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:24 pm

Ah, thank you.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

User avatar
The Frugal Gourmet
Posts: 44071
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:27 pm
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:02 pm

We need to bring him to the NHL now so I can start complaining about how he was rushed instead.

User avatar
Troy McClure
Posts: 44390
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:37 pm
Location: not Cleveland
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Troy McClure » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:28 pm

Hockey nerd talking.

I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

One_Timer
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby One_Timer » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:52 pm

I think the 2018 fourth rounder that told Tallon to go eat a scab sandwich is going to make some waves in the prospect system.

User avatar
Troy McClure
Posts: 44390
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:37 pm
Location: not Cleveland
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Troy McClure » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:37 am

One_Timer wrote:I think the 2018 fourth rounder that told Tallon to go eat a scab sandwich is going to make some waves in the prospect system.

That would be nice. The Stars could use a break. Other than winning the draft lotto, draft picking has been rough business.

But it will be interesting to see if many guys follow his path of refusing to sign with the team who drafted them. I bet if there are more who go that route we will see GMs come together and agree to punish these guys by giving them bare minimum ELC offers after they are re-drafted.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

One_Timer
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby One_Timer » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:16 pm

Wouldn’t that be collusion? Hard to prove, I guess.

Cecconi’s rights expire Aug 2019 as he’s playing his senior season at Michigan. Not sure what he plans to do but could go to UFA. He seems like a Methot type. He’s been steady at UM and in international play.

User avatar
5minmajor
Posts: 16319
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:39 pm

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby 5minmajor » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:38 am

NO COLLUSION!
"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices, have very few virtues."
-- Abraham Lincoln

User avatar
wonko80
Posts: 14662
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:03 pm
Location: Frisco

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:17 am

This guy is right up Troy's alley, and I definitely feel this way to about pretty much most of the Stars prospects.

https://theathletic.com/481028/2018/08/ ... -and-more/
One of the things I did while working for the Toronto Marlies was scout the opposition before each game. Over the course of the year, the sheets were pretty well filled in, and I really became familiar with opposing rosters. One thing that often surprised me is how often I’d watch a “name” prospect and come to think “Kay this kid isn’t just not NHL ready, he’s not even good at this level. He’s actually kinda bad.” And not one of those prospects has gone on to surprise me.

As an American League hockey team, other teams have a tenth of the access to the information you do about your own players. You see them every day in practice, you see every shift of every game, you see them in the weight room, you know their motivation level, you know it all. And yet, when things are going sideways teams seem wildly hesitant to trade prospects, and I think it’s a current pro hockey market inefficiency.

If every time you had a player for a certain time and they made you nervous about their development – call it a single season – and you traded them, I believe you’d come out on the positive side for your organization. So much of pro hockey management is, unfortunately, hanging on to your job. There’s only 31 GM jobs in the league – the last thing it seems that most want to do is embarrass themselves by admitting defeat on a recent move. I think the perception is that trading a player you picked high just a year ago is admitting you messed up, which can be publicly embarrassing. I think it embarrasses the scouts, and maybe the AHL coaching staff that it didn’t go better. And lordy, if that player becomes an NHL player, that’s not a great look.

But most of these guys know, and they know early. You know that player because you’ve seen them a zillion times, and if they have to get better to be decent in the AHL, even if they make the NHL, are they going to be much better than replacement level? Are you really truly burned by that? I’ve truly come to believe that if you packaged them in a trade while their name has value – while they’re a prospect, not a project – you’d recoup another dart to throw at the board versus hanging on to your broken dart. Teams are like fans – they overvalue names, where a player was drafted, and they buy the hope that comes with those things.

I realize this all sounds very cold. But that’s just the way sports management is moving today. For all the times you roll your eyes at “it’s a business,” it is a damn business.

User avatar
slaps
Posts: 31850
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Shady Drifter
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby slaps » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:05 pm

Bourne is fantastic. I'd subscribe to the Athletic just for his column.

User avatar
ToddM
Posts: 15157
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:09 pm

Yeah, I wonder why so many GMs are so risk-averse (one thing Nill most definitely is NOT... well, at least when it comes to trades). You'd think it's because failures would outweigh successes, but look at *fargin'* George "Martin Erat for Forsberg" McPhee. The guy has made one unbelievably shitty trade or UFA signings after another, yet somehow his team lucked its way into the Finals, so he's a Genius now. (tho I guess some of that was helped by *other*, far more risk-averse, GMs *fargin'* up their own teams to make his better).

Maybe because there are so few GM jobs out there? Nobody wants to McPhee their first-rounder, and get fired and get jobbed down to GM of some ECHL team in Greenland or North Korea. Especially since the Good Old Boys network is so hard to break into in the first place, and Good Old Boys occupy so many of the top jobs as it is.

User avatar
The Frugal Gourmet
Posts: 44071
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:27 pm
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby The Frugal Gourmet » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:45 pm

He is right. Smart guy.

User avatar
wonko80
Posts: 14662
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:03 pm
Location: Frisco

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:03 pm

I actually think Nill is quite risk-averse even with trades. He's only really made trades that make sense for what the Stars need and weren't really bold moves to change the direction of the team. Seguin being the outlier, but that was also a huge headscratcher of a trade by Boston. I look at the list of his other trades and none stand out as risky to me. Even the Seguin trade wasn't really risky, but it did have a huge impact on the team.

We all know how risk-averse Nill is towards prospects.

I'm not saying he should have been way riskier with trades as that can obviously make the team worse too, but you combine that with his terrible prospect development, and he appears to be a very risk-averse GM.

User avatar
ToddM
Posts: 15157
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby ToddM » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:26 pm

I would say his drafting record is pretty ballsy. Choosing Gurianov over slam-dunk consensus picks like Barzal or Connor? That's the opposite of risk-averse. Choosing Nichushkin when everyone else was too scared to draft a Russian? Selecting Elie in the 2nd round, even tho Elie was just a fourth-liner in the OHL at the time? Selecting Tufte straight out of high school?

I will say that, at least in terms of prospect development, Nill is definitely in the Ken Holland "wait til' they're 30" camp of craven GMs.

...and looking over his trades, you're right: I guess the vast majority of them made sense, and were not technically "gambles." Maybe Dillon-for-Demers? Of course, the Seguin trade was risky for Good Old Boys who thought Seguin Didn't Play The Right Way, but for 99% of actual hockey fans it was considered a slam-dunk at the time.

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/tra ... m_Nill/231

User avatar
Troy McClure
Posts: 44390
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:37 pm
Location: not Cleveland
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Troy McClure » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:39 pm

Drafting bad players is a kind of ballsy. Not the kind I want making picks.

I've also changed my view of the Holland/Nill prospect development thing. With Nill, it's not done because he thinks it will result in better players. "Wait til they have one year left on their ELC" is really code for "our prospects suck and aren't good enough to contribute in the NHL." It's not like even one Stars prospect Nill has overcooked in the AHL has been even slightly good in the NHL. No, Nill kept them there because they were under contract and had to play somewhere.
I got a ranch in downtown Dallas/I buy diamonds by the ton/Chase cuties in my Cadillac/Drill oil wells just for fun/But when it comes to boots, I need a deal/That will fit me right, toe to heel/So I get my boots at Western Warehouse.

User avatar
wonko80
Posts: 14662
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:03 pm
Location: Frisco

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby wonko80 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:13 pm

A risky trade would've been trading Nichushkin after year two and getting a decent return. Maybe the return would have been worse than what Nichuskin would develop into, but at least it would've been a player contributing to the team. Instead we lost two years of his development (or at least having any control over it) and his value plummeted.

A risk-averse GM would do exactly what Nill did: hang on to him in the hopes it turns out to be something good because the fear of trading him away and having him be awesome for someone else was too great. Which is a stupid reason to hang on to a guy if you don't then actually play him or develop him.

User avatar
slaps
Posts: 31850
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Shady Drifter
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby slaps » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:21 pm

Tim Bernhardt (former Stars scout who got us Benn, Klingberg, and Turco) has parted ways with the Coyotes. I wonder if we can fire the scouting staff and bring him back?

User avatar
ScubaSteve
Posts: 37320
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby ScubaSteve » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:25 pm

slaps wrote:Tim Bernhardt (former Stars scout who got us Benn, Klingberg, and Turco) has parted ways with the Coyotes. I wonder if we can fire the scouting staff and bring him back?


He also got us Campbell, Glennie, Vishnevskiy, and Martin Vagner.
Image Cody Monette likes this.

Eskimo Spy wrote:I would of course make some jokes if any of you died

User avatar
slaps
Posts: 31850
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:21 am
Location: Shady Drifter
Contact:

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby slaps » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:14 pm

ScubaSteve wrote:
slaps wrote:Tim Bernhardt (former Stars scout who got us Benn, Klingberg, and Turco) has parted ways with the Coyotes. I wonder if we can fire the scouting staff and bring him back?


He also got us Campbell, Glennie, Vishnevskiy, and Martin Vagner.


So a draw? That's better than where we are currently.

User avatar
Knives Out
Posts: 18435
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: TO via MTL

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Knives Out » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:34 pm

Vishnevskiy got us Glass Fatso, which is why Timmy boy deserved to work for Phoenix and then be unemployed.
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

Jason
Posts: 10737
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:09 am

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Jason » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:32 pm


User avatar
Knives Out
Posts: 18435
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: TO via MTL

Re: Texas Stars and prospects thread

Postby Knives Out » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:25 pm

Champions League? FOH
That Hanzal's so hurt right now.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests